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hey dave at avatar

#42
This thread is interesting, in that if you review Avatar's product offerings of the past five years, you see some very infrequent design changes. You also see some changes based on what was selling well vs. what wasn't. You see a few cases of Dave responding to customer requests - such as the improved crossover, and the Line-X coatings.

Overall, he sticks with the designs that are selling for him. I don't know that some of these more radical suggestions are going to be of interest to him, simply because he'll look at them in terms of how much it'll cost to start up production, vs. how many units he thinks he will sell. He's stuck with the current cab offerings for some time now. It's hard to say if he will introduce something completely different.

To those of you who are looking for a powerful 3-way cab, incorporating high-power drivers, but for Avatar-like outlays of cash, I suggest the obvious: either build the extraordinary Fitzmaurice Omni 12 or 15 cabinets, or if you don't want to build a cab, buy the Carvin LS1503 cabinet and mod it according to the LS1503 megathreads.
MT1
MT2

Don't hold your breath waiting for Dave to offer something like these, because it probably is not going to happen. It doesn't fit his business model.
 
#44
Almost every manufacturer that I'm aware of now has a 610 cab available. To my knowledge Schroeder is the latest entry into the market.
With every one of these other manufactures 610 cabs starting out at $1000.00 and going way up from there, I think Avatar could... at the lower price point... do "VERY" well with a 610.
Two of my bass play'n buddies have recently went to 610's. One went with Ampeg, the other SWR. I myself would go with a Eden 610XLT if I could afford $1600.00.
From what has been said here and on the other forums, 610 cabs seem to be gaining in popularity. I think in time... 610 cabs will supersede the 810 as the big stage cab.
 
#45
shoot-r said:
Almost every manufacturer that I'm aware of now has a 610 cab available. To my knowledge Schroeder is the latest entry into the market.
With every one of these other manufactures 610 cabs starting out at $1000.00 and going way up from there, I think Avatar could... at the lower price point... do "VERY" well with a 610.
Two of my bass play'n buddies have recently went to 610's. One went with Ampeg, the other SWR. I myself would go with a Eden 610XLT if I could afford $1600.00.
From what has been said here and on the other forums, 610 cabs seem to be gaining in popularity. I think in time... 610 cabs will supersede the 810 as the big stage cab.
Click to expand...


Honestly, just get a 410 and a 210. You will have a 610 when you need it, a 210 for smaller gigs, and a 410 for mid sized gigs.
 
#48
FenderH, I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying with every other manufacturer having a high priced 610 available it'd be a shame for Avatar to not fill the need for a low priced 610. There seems to be more and more sales of 610's, Avatar is missing out on their market share.
There also seems to be a resurgence of 215 cabs. Dave's use of same cab...different speaker configuration...would fall right in with a 610 or 215 cab.
 
#50
Portaflexr, I agree. Awhile back I did a job where the furnished backline bass amp was a Eden 800 hd. through a Eden 610XLT. This was my first live band setting using a 610 cab. This was truly a cab that sounded much larger than the sum of it's parts. I've not been the same since!!!!!
 
#51
portaflexer said:
410 + 210 is not equal to 610 in sound, weight, or appearance...
Click to expand...

+1

I have an Aggie S410 and S210, which I thought would make a helluva combo.

It's not bad, but it's not as good as I had hoped.

There is some unpleasant comb filtering going on between the two cabs.

Sounds like some funky stereo effect.

The 2x10 is certainly faster than the 4x10.

The two cabs are certainly not equal, which no 2x10's and 4x10's set would be.

I think the only way to avoid the issue is to have identical cabs (as B. Fitz suggested).

When I had 2 S410's that was a slice of Aggie heaven...

Those were the days...

Link Removed
 
#52
shoot-r said:
Portaflexr, I agree. Awhile back I did a job where the furnished backline bass amp was a Eden 800 hd. through a Eden 610XLT. This was my first live band setting using a 610 cab. This was truly a cab that sounded much larger than the sum of it's parts. I've not been the same since!!!!!
Click to expand...

A local shop around here sells Ampeg gear. A buddy of mine and I went in there one day and they happened to have a 2 210's, 2 410's, a 610, and an 810 all in stock at the same time. He ended up buying a single 210, but we didn't want to miss this chance to try all the combinations side by side. As you would expect, each cab is voiced quite differently. 210 + 210 sounds different from 410, 410 + 210 sounds different from 610, 410 + 410 sounds different from 810 (though this was probably the closest), and 210 + 610 sounds different from 810. That being said... every combination sounded great... but they were all voiced a little different. The 810 is still king, but I was partial to the 610 myself.
 
#53
Lorenzini said:
Are you familiar with the HT322 that Jim Bergantino makes?
I'm just curious what you think is the disadvantage other than its heavy weight. They sound awesome

Oh and not to mention every 410 or 610 ever made...
Click to expand...
Sure they sound good. But they're big and heavy. Second grade math: 2x3= 6. Three 2x10s using the same drivers in the same net cabinet size/tuning with the same physical driver layout will sound identical to one 6x10. In the same fashion two 2x10s will equal one 4x10. When differences exist it's because the drivers/box volume/tuning/driver layout are not the same.
 
#54
billfitzmaurice said:
Three 2x10s using the same drivers in the same net cabinet size/tuning with the same physical driver layout will sound identical to one 6x10.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true. With 3 210's each pair of drivers is sharing the same air. With a 610, 6 drivers are sharing the same air. The soundwaves coming off the back of the speakers will act differently in the cab. This has a lot of bearing on the cab's voicing.
 
#55
portaflexer said:
Not entirely true. With 3 210's each pair of drivers is sharing the same air. With a 610, 6 drivers are sharing the same air. The soundwaves coming off the back of the speakers will act differently in the cab. This has a lot of bearing on the cab's voicing.
Click to expand...
That seems perfectly logical, but it isn't true. Where a larger cabinet can sound different than smaller cabs stacked is when the interior isn't subdivided, which can allow 1/4 wavelength resonances to arise. Preventing that is one reason for the SVT being subdivided into compartments, the other being bracing. But as for the volume of air within the box(es) all that matters is the volume of air per driver.
 
#56
Now you're talking about standing wave resonance, and I'm talking about voicing. Though they each impact each other, they are not the same. Since I think this e-argument is headed nowhere (and ultimately we'll both end up saying the same thing), I'm dropping it here.
 
#57
billfitzmaurice said:
That seems perfectly logical, but it isn't true. Where a larger cabinet can sound different than smaller cabs stacked is when the interior isn't subdivided, which can allow 1/4 wavelength resonances to arise. Preventing that is one reason for the SVT being subdivided into compartments, the other being bracing. But as for the volume of air within the box(es) all that matters is the volume of air per driver.
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
#58
billfitzmaurice said:
Buy three 2x10s. There's no particular advantage to putting more than two drivers in a cab, and many disadvantages.
Click to expand...
The main advantages that I can think of to having more than 4 drivers in a cab are the fact that you only have to lift one cab to put it in the car/truck, you only have to carry one cab to the stage and larger cabs are more likely to have wheels, effectively allowing you the freedom of not having to take a dolly to every gig, (cool run on sentence, eh?). There are a heck of a lot of times when ease of use beats superior tone.
 
#59
I have Avatars..............But would not mind seeing a more compact "Neo 110" and "Neo 112" to go along with some of these new portable heads like the Genz-Benz Shuttles. I think they would sell quite a few compact 10" or 12" single speaker cabinets................:D
 
#60
bgavin said:
12 + 10 isn't really a very good match. The 10" is neither a big bottom driver, nor an optimal mids driver. A 6 or 8" is more suitable.

If you want a wish list, wish for a 3015LF and a pair of Delta Pro 8B. I have an urge to build this one for myself. Box is 33H x 22W x 16.75D. The width is chosen to match a standard rack. Takes a full 450w without exceeding Xmax. Gives F3 around 44 Hz and an honest 99 SPL above 100 Hz. I estimate 70 pounds bare, made from 1/2" baltic birch.

The vertical array of 8" gives better horizontal dispersion, and a higher beaming frequency. These are 16-ohm drivers, so a parallel pair will mate with the 3015LF and an 8-ohm crossover. This combination should handle 60 volts (450w into 8 ohms, 225w into 16 ohms) witouth fear of damage. Biamp or crossover at 300 Hz. Response is good to 5,000 Hz without using tweeters.

The 3015LF will whomp any 12".
Click to expand...
Peavey use to make something like that called a 1516. The 8's were Horizontal instead of vertical. I remember playing one once but it didn't really turn my crank. I bet with the right drivers it would really kick.
 

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