I'm just curious how much an amp really gets used. As far being blended with the direct signal, used on it's own or do y'all simply go direct and process it through plugins? Thanks
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Hey session cats I got an amp question
- Thread starter dgravesweiner
- Start date
After ten years of being a hired gun, staff bassist at a great studio, and taking the bass direct 100% of the time, my band started working on our own album.
I brought my G-K 800RB to the sessions and ran it into an Ampeg 810, with both direct and miced signals. After that, the studio owner/engineer insisted I bring it for almost every other session.
I brought my G-K 800RB to the sessions and ran it into an Ampeg 810, with both direct and miced signals. After that, the studio owner/engineer insisted I bring it for almost every other session.
Cool man. I'm looking into a Mesa M-6 carbine and the massive PH 8x10 And was just curious about possibly lugging it around for the sessions I do. Thanks
it's kind of rare that an engineer wants to deal with an actual bass rig. Many amps have some good DI outs, but a quality studio will have some mic preamps which will make you wish you used those as a preamp in your live rig.
OTOH, if a producer is looking for a specific sound, the mic'ed amp might come into play. The B-15 and SVT are kind of classic amp "sounds", but in many cases a studio that does a lot of stuff with that vibe will have one.
You also have to consider that on many projects the number of channels may be limited by actual space or $$ per track. It's pretty rare for an engineer to rely 100% on an amp track for a bass, so if you use one then you can figure on two tracks for bass (direct and amp). Then you run into issues with phase unless they're good at mic placement, etc.
Personally, when I record, I want a direct track no matter what. I've gotten great results micing up a bag end 12 that i've pummeled with watts, but that track on it's own needed fattening up that EQ wouldn't do 1/10 as well as simply dialing in a bit of the direct track.
OTOH, if a producer is looking for a specific sound, the mic'ed amp might come into play. The B-15 and SVT are kind of classic amp "sounds", but in many cases a studio that does a lot of stuff with that vibe will have one.
You also have to consider that on many projects the number of channels may be limited by actual space or $$ per track. It's pretty rare for an engineer to rely 100% on an amp track for a bass, so if you use one then you can figure on two tracks for bass (direct and amp). Then you run into issues with phase unless they're good at mic placement, etc.
Personally, when I record, I want a direct track no matter what. I've gotten great results micing up a bag end 12 that i've pummeled with watts, but that track on it's own needed fattening up that EQ wouldn't do 1/10 as well as simply dialing in a bit of the direct track.
It all depends. If you're doing standard type sessions, you can achieve many sounds going direct and/or using plug-ins. But if the sound you're after is dependent on your amp, bring it.
Don't remember what mic we used......it's been awhile (late '90s)
I always record direct (thru a tube mic pre compressor unit before ProTools interface). If needed, that direct signal track can be re-amp later (feed to a bass amp and/or cabs and miked and/or direct from amp from there).
In some live studio recording situation where little 'track bleed' is okay and ambience sound is needed, sometimes (but rarely) the bass recorded from cab miked AND the direct signal.
The key is always to have a clean and good direct signal recorded. It can be manipulated at later stage.
But I know sometimes recorded while we play bass with amp&cab in the live room can give some 'feel' that can influence the playing. But I don't really like it because at that scenario I have to wear headphones
So for me, I don't really need bass amp and cabs in the recording studio.
In some live studio recording situation where little 'track bleed' is okay and ambience sound is needed, sometimes (but rarely) the bass recorded from cab miked AND the direct signal.
The key is always to have a clean and good direct signal recorded. It can be manipulated at later stage.
But I know sometimes recorded while we play bass with amp&cab in the live room can give some 'feel' that can influence the playing. But I don't really like it because at that scenario I have to wear headphones
So for me, I don't really need bass amp and cabs in the recording studio.
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I certainly wouldn't cart an 810 around to do hired sessions, and as IvanMike said, a well equipped studio should have an assortment of bass amps to choose from. I always used the 810 that belonged to the studio.
Now, if you're talking about a semi-pro, or home studio, they might not have the assortment of equipment a full blown facility would have.
direct is my favorite sound. tightest bass. they (producers) always want to add some "speaker" sound to add some liveliness and more character to the mids. i have to agree, the mids are usually a little sterile on the direct only signal. johnny a.
My background: I'm not a full on session dude - probably about 10-12 sessions a year, mainly Country, Blues, and other roots-ish music.
I've never brought an amp to a session or used one. I do sometimes bring my SansAmp Bass Driver and use it.
I've never brought an amp to a session or used one. I do sometimes bring my SansAmp Bass Driver and use it.
Direct is standard, but nothing beats a two channel (amp+direct) tone IMO.
The amp can be a tiny 30W with a single 10" speaker, if done right (I usually put a heavy blanket covering amp and mic) it adds some great character to the timbre of your bass...
The amp can be a tiny 30W with a single 10" speaker, if done right (I usually put a heavy blanket covering amp and mic) it adds some great character to the timbre of your bass...
I have an RE-20 but find it a bit boomy on bass cabs (unless I'm going for that). It def does get a good low thump though. I tend to use a plain 'ole 57 (blended DI of course) and get some nice character.
as far as an amp - I do use one occasionally. but more often than not a DI and bass driver is all I need. If I'm at someone else's place and there is a B-15 . . . well then I'm using that!
I always record direct (thru a tube mic pre compressor unit before ProTools interface). If needed, that direct signal track can be re-amp later (feed to a bass amp and/or cabs and miked and/or direct from amp from there).
In some live studio recording situation where little 'track bleed' is okay and ambience sound is needed, sometimes (but rarely) the bass recorded from cab miked AND the direct signal.
The key is always to have a clean and good direct signal recorded. It can be manipulated at later stage.
But I know sometimes recorded while we play bass with amp&cab in the live room can give some 'feel' that can influence the playing. But I don't really like it because at that scenario I have to wear headphones
So for me, I don't really need bass amp and cabs in the recording studio.
What ^ said. I used to struggle with amps in the studio but now mostly focus on a good direct tone for tracking (dependent on the type of recording: naked to a click-track, over a reference vocal, or in a room full of players are all different scenarios and set-ups). But if you can get a good direct track fed into room monitors or cans that's simplest and is usually adequate for initial tracking, IME. If the time is available & you want some room sound added later, re-amping is a lot of fun and can allow you and the engineer to try all kinds of amp/mic combinations and just have a blast (if the client's willing and you're invited to help).
- May 9, 2008
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Well it depends on genre, if I play a reggae session its going to need a very different bass rig to a metal session.
I like to have both valve DI and amps and cabinets mic'd.
A little labs phase tool works for me to get the two signals
in phase (well there are usually three, but thats because I often use a dual amp rig for rock, 15"s for dirt and 10"s + tweeter for cleaner)
but I use only one carefully positioned old Neumann U87 out a few feet in front of the cabs.
I don't like plug-in compressors a lot but the UA TDM version
called a fairchild 670 works OK but I would far rather use three, an old joe meek vc6 comp before my old mesa studio pre just to tidy up any peaks clipping, then use waves c1 plugins on the channels then into a real neve 33609jd in the master buss inserts.
All the compressors are set for slightly different parameters
and for very little gain reduction each, so I just don't get that hard knocky woody tone I associate with heavy stand alone digital compression.
I like to have both valve DI and amps and cabinets mic'd.
A little labs phase tool works for me to get the two signals
in phase (well there are usually three, but thats because I often use a dual amp rig for rock, 15"s for dirt and 10"s + tweeter for cleaner)
but I use only one carefully positioned old Neumann U87 out a few feet in front of the cabs.
I don't like plug-in compressors a lot but the UA TDM version
called a fairchild 670 works OK but I would far rather use three, an old joe meek vc6 comp before my old mesa studio pre just to tidy up any peaks clipping, then use waves c1 plugins on the channels then into a real neve 33609jd in the master buss inserts.
All the compressors are set for slightly different parameters
and for very little gain reduction each, so I just don't get that hard knocky woody tone I associate with heavy stand alone digital compression.
Thanks to all of you for the info/advice. The studio is small but a working one with an awesome engineer/producer/owner and all we have tracked is direct so I was looking to suggest things for spice but alas we went direct and used some plugins and thanks to the American P-Bass all is well(despite my inability to play cleanly on some transititions)
And we ran through a Great River pre whilst the Pod Farm 2 was working and compressed it with the Waves CLA-3A plugin and it sounds like it should for a country type ballad.
I usually go direct, and I insist on being put thru a tube pre...I've used as many as 4 at a time! I've grown really fond of ULA and Joe Meek pre-amps.
With my own band, I use a 12" combo amp miked up in a booth (to push some air), a direct from my fx board and a direct from my bass output.
Hope that helps...
With my own band, I use a 12" combo amp miked up in a booth (to push some air), a direct from my fx board and a direct from my bass output.
Hope that helps...
the truth is it doesn't matter how you record. what matters is how you and your band plays. but there's something very forceful about the sound of a mic'ed cab, so if you can record that way, it's best. otoh, i've made killer sounding tracks using a whirlwind imp 2. not crazy about them but it worked.
as for the re-20, one of the best bass cab mics you will ever hear. if it's too boomy, just back off the grill a couple inches...that's all. gear is there to be manipulated. you don't let the gear play you.
what up, johnny a? been a while, bro!
as for the re-20, one of the best bass cab mics you will ever hear. if it's too boomy, just back off the grill a couple inches...that's all. gear is there to be manipulated. you don't let the gear play you.
what up, johnny a? been a while, bro!
Think about what the majority of bass session players actually do at work.
I would think that most on call players are playing on jingles, minor sound tracks, small films, demos, and a pile of other crap that is not related to a high end recording project an any level.
If you consider that pro studio time costs $2-$3 a minute + all the session players hourly charge + producer and possibly highered engineer, then it becomes aparent that getting tracks down quickly (that sound decent) is what all these guys need to do if they are going to get rehired. This is about making money not art. Bet this accounts for more than 3/4 of the hired bass sessions. We want clean, safe, and good; no exotic tonality as it may be remixed by others for different applications.
I have found that most serious recording dates on the semi-pro and amateur level are with a band with no hired rhythm players. While I love these sessions best, not all studios have the space to dedicate the main room for the drums, have two iso booths for loud guitars, and another booth for a scratch vocal track, and yet another space (typicaly not in the main studio) for a loud bass amp. The bass amp often loses at least at the live recording. No reason why the DI track couldn't be run back through an amp after the rhythm tracks with the exception of the fact that most of these guys don't have enough budget for RT's, over dubs, and a decent mix seesion; once again the bass loses.
I've worked at 4 twin 24-track studios (yes back when dinasaurs used 2" tape). Never seen a decent engineer not want to get a good track. More often than not, they have a commitment to help the client stay on schedule.
I would think that most on call players are playing on jingles, minor sound tracks, small films, demos, and a pile of other crap that is not related to a high end recording project an any level.
If you consider that pro studio time costs $2-$3 a minute + all the session players hourly charge + producer and possibly highered engineer, then it becomes aparent that getting tracks down quickly (that sound decent) is what all these guys need to do if they are going to get rehired. This is about making money not art. Bet this accounts for more than 3/4 of the hired bass sessions. We want clean, safe, and good; no exotic tonality as it may be remixed by others for different applications.
I have found that most serious recording dates on the semi-pro and amateur level are with a band with no hired rhythm players. While I love these sessions best, not all studios have the space to dedicate the main room for the drums, have two iso booths for loud guitars, and another booth for a scratch vocal track, and yet another space (typicaly not in the main studio) for a loud bass amp. The bass amp often loses at least at the live recording. No reason why the DI track couldn't be run back through an amp after the rhythm tracks with the exception of the fact that most of these guys don't have enough budget for RT's, over dubs, and a decent mix seesion; once again the bass loses.
I've worked at 4 twin 24-track studios (yes back when dinasaurs used 2" tape). Never seen a decent engineer not want to get a good track. More often than not, they have a commitment to help the client stay on schedule.
On all the sessions I've ever done, not once have I actually used a mic'ed amp, or a SS standalone. There is just not the time or more importantly, the space in most sessions to accommodate a bass amp IME. There are definitely times where I'd love to use my amp, but convenience and time factors usually make it impractical, not to mention the extra bleed issues that an additional cab brings into play.
Now, my sessions are not metal sessions or stuff that absolutely needs the amp sound. But the other thing is, that IME even the best bass amps/bass preamps you could bring in cannot touch the quality of the gear available in a good studio chain... Unless of course your rig is a REDDI --> Distressor --> API or Neve eq , or something equivalent to that, in which case I say... Well done.
Now, my sessions are not metal sessions or stuff that absolutely needs the amp sound. But the other thing is, that IME even the best bass amps/bass preamps you could bring in cannot touch the quality of the gear available in a good studio chain... Unless of course your rig is a REDDI --> Distressor --> API or Neve eq , or something equivalent to that, in which case I say... Well done.
