High End Bass Amps- What do you like?

[Downunderwonder]

Just painting a car red doesn't make it faster.

sez you!

 

[Downunderwonder]

I think a big reason for 4 sealed chambers instead of 2 and a couple of braces in the 810 was so a single blown driver wouldn't cause total failure.

 

[Ryno1330]

I'd like to add a couple thoughts and see if @Jim Bergantino has anything to add.

2 NXT112s let me hit a tone I really liked when driven by my bass and a Forté HP with minimal tone shaping. Just a little filtering and very light EQ.

1 NXT212 required more extreme filtering and heavier eq to achieve the same goal with the same bass and head.

I don't need an oscilloscope. I don't claim that these speakers were perfectly the same tone after the tweaking, but I have been a bassist for 36 years, and have been a professional CD mastering engineer, and have recorded and co-produced many records, some of which have hit national labels, major network TV shows, and art house films with international distribution. I can hear these cabinets sound different. I don't claim this makes a rule that will always be true for all 112s vs 212s.

I don't think we know for sure that these were designed to be the same. They both sound good. They just sound different.

In the end, if you see my recent post in the club bergantino thread, I found my optimum sound by using 4 NXTs stacked 2x2, bottom cabinets had tweeters off, top cabinets had tweeters on, and the 2 stacks were angled in a slight V pointing at each other. This sounded bigger and fuller tan any other configuration I could assemble with 4 112s and a single 212.

I did not want this outcome. I wanted it to sound great with a PJB 800 watt head and 2 C4s. Way smaller and cheaper. Then I wanted it to sound better with the Forté and 4 PJB C4s. Then I wanted it to sound better with the Forté HP and 2 NXT 112s. And then I wanted it to sound better with 1 112 and 1 212. Then I wanted it to sound better with 3 112s. Then I begrudgingly found it sounded best with 4 112s. I didn't love returning all that gear. I have a 4 hour round trip drive tomorrow to return the 212. My goal was small, light, but no sacrificing sound quality. I didn't want 4 $900 cabinets and a $1600 head/bag/foot switch. That's crazy money for a part time amateur rig, and I'm not rich. But this is probably my last amp, and damn it, I want it to sound good. And you know what? It sounds amazing, and I'm legit concerned about my sanity spending like this. Especially since I've gotten in the queue for a new Bordwell.

There is obviously some subjectivity to my ears opposed to a frequency plot, but I know what I want to hear, and I think I have the experience to hear the differences.

None the less, today I tried many configurations of arranging the speakers, with a goal of wanting to keep just 3 112s, and the final rig is 4 112s. It does sound better at all volumes. And it will never not be loud enough.

View attachment 3973302

My guess is I doubt you'll see Jim jumping in here. He's too smart to jump in the weeds on threads like these. He'll answer these questions via email or in the Berg thread. Not all have the same tact. I hope my conjecture is not misplaced as I don't like to speak for others - but I just have a hunch.

 

[George Dennis]

It's always been all about physics!

If a designer uses the physics to get the basics done well, it opens more opportunities for voicing and flavoring options.

The combination of physics/science and art is what makes good musical instrument amps and speakers work the best. Same for instruments.

Thanks @agedhorse , I value and respect those who decode the workings of the world in this way.
Personally, I failed physics at high school (too many vectors ... though I did enjoy metaphysics) however I learnt enough to appreciate that the cardio-vascular system is bound by the laws of physics.
In my earlier reply, I was alluding to the, er, fact(?) that no amount of exegesis on atomic forces will ever explain the satisfaction I get from the surge of dopamine that results from plucking a string to shift some air to trigger these neural pathways. Maybe this just another way of saying;
"if it sounds good, it is good"
... even if the resultant primative urge sees a 834 Newton hominoid transport the 441 Newton object producing these "sounds" to random locations where arbitary and unmeasurable attempts are made to share these pleasant sensations with other homosapiens.
However, without those who completely understand the physics and its associated engineering, manufacturing requirements and limitations, such interactions would prove very difficult and unrewarding.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Guess that's true love ... even so, sounds like you still have a fantastic setup!
Despite getting older I keep following my heart rather than my head ... maybe because I always thought that was how the best music was made? That is, til I started reading this thread.
All these years later I finally discover it's all just physics.

(Just quietly, I have some concerns about the terminal velocity of this thread!)

I hear yah, My rig before age caught me and I went lite was, a 1x18, 1x12 bi-amped rig with a rack, stereo PA amp, electronic crossover, various preamps over time, and other processing gear.
Now it's a Mesa WD-800 and, a 1x12 cab. ATAT, I'm in talks with TB member https://www.talkbass.com/members/passinwind.37018/ about possibly developing a multi-speaker system, again. More of that following my heart rather than my head

 

[agedhorse]

To refresh my memory, I looked at the math for 2 single cabinets versus 1 two driver cabinet and I could find no way to differentiate the two in terms of predicting performance. This is, or course, provided the bracing is adequate.

 

[DJ Bebop]

To refresh my memory, I looked at the math for 2 single cabinets versus 1 two driver cabinet and I could find no way to differentiate the two in terms of predicting performance. This is, or course, provided the bracing is adequate.

Other than, two 1x12 cabinets have two tweeters and one 2x12 cabinet has one tweeter.
The woofers in both, however, performs the same

Is that right?

 

[agedhorse]

Correct, and presuming that the tweeter is turned down in one cabinet, it's going to be pretty darn close.

 

[George Dennis]

Is that right?
View attachment 3974020

That wins "Best GIF Ever" for me!

 

[DJ Bebop]

Correct, and presuming that the tweeter is turned down in one cabinet, it's going to be pretty darn close.

Yep, the L-Pad is your friend.
They help to cut the clank and sizzle.

Yes, that is the deal I think, everyone's forgetting,
to turn down that second tweeter when comparing two cabs to one.

 

[DTRN]

Without mentioning any names, let's just say tube amps are my thang.

I have had my Bassman 300 for 2 months now and I will never return to SS if I don't have to. Even my band mates love the sound better.

 

[jojobean39]

To refresh my memory, I looked at the math for 2 single cabinets versus 1 two driver cabinet and I could find no way to differentiate the two in terms of predicting performance. This is, or course, provided the bracing is adequate.

Here, I checked it for you.

1+1=2

Your story checks out.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Correct, and presuming that the tweeter is turned down in one cabinet, it's going to be pretty darn close.

Thought of something else.
The orientation of the tweeter is a bit different in the 1x12 vs the 2x12.
In the 1x12 the tweet is on top and could be in a 2 1x12 stack whereas in the 2x12 the tweet is in the middle of the cab.
So those that perceive more mids from the 2 1x12 stack vs the 2x12 my be hearing that top tweeter or both tweeters on, as we've discussed, in the 2 1x12 stack

 

[agedhorse]

Thought of something else.
The orientation of the tweeter is a bit different in the 1x12 vs the 2x12.
In the 1x12 the tweet is on top and could be in a 2 1x12 stack whereas in the 2x12 the tweet is in the middle of the cab.
So those that perceive more mids from the 2 1x12 stack vs the 2x12 my be hearing that top tweeter or both tweeters on, as we've discussed, in the 2 1x12 stack

Possibly, but to eliminate the tweeter from the scenario, run with the tweeters off and they will be quite close.

 

[pravus]

I own several high end amps but my favorite right now is a Science Amplification Mother Mk.III which is a Hiwatt DR-201 circuit similar to the Reeves 225. It's very raw, active, and crystal clear without any sort of modern sparkle or chime and you can dial anything from punchy to funky with the depth and absence controls. It has two-channels for different gain staging and the overdrive is pretty soft with a finer grit compared to most amps I've tried.

Hand-wired in Washington state. Here it is with a 2x12 guitar cab and some other "stuff":

 

[Ryno1330]

I own several high end amps but my favorite right now is a Science Amplification Mother Mk.III which is a Hiwatt DR-201 circuit similar to the Reeves 225. It's very raw, active, and crystal clear without any sort of modern sparkle or chime and you can dial anything from punchy to funky with the depth and absence controls. It has two-channels for different gain staging and the overdrive is pretty soft with a finer grit compared to most amps I've tried.

Hand-wired in Washington state. Here it is with a 2x12 guitar cab and some other "stuff":
View attachment 3976417

Interesting. And whatever that white thing with all the strings is - it scares the heck out of me!

 

[Mike H]

I've been a fan of Eden amps for a while. I don't know if they're really considered high end or not, but they're pretty solid beasts. I've played them exclusively for a while. I've owned other brands- Trace Elliot, Peavey, Warwick and some others I've long forgotten.

But I'm curious about what else is out there on the higher end of the spectrum. It's quite hard to test any of these out, as your local Guitar Center doesn't exactly stock a wide variety. I'm a couple hours from Bass Central, but I prefer to buy used. I'd like some recommendations, as that's probably all I will have to go off of if I end up moving that way.

I've never gotten to play a Glockenklang. They seem super nice to me. I'm also interested in Darkglass. But I'm really open to hearing about anything.

I am super knowledgeable about guitar amps, but bass amps are a bit different.

Thanks!

Bergantino.
Bergantino Audio Systems

 

[Mpcorb]

I have a fender rumble 60 which is great, but is there a lighter amp I can lug to rehearsals which is affordable but will do a good job in a four piece blues band?

 

[quickervicar]

 

[Ian Lewis]

Bergantino NV610 is the best cabinet I ever owned or played through.

Interesting, but he asked about amplifiers