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Higher end production bass vs 'entry' level custom.

TL;DR Version:

- Begin on something, then get a decent #1 (chronological and not preferential ie “my #1”) No more than $1000, you won't readily grasp the quality differences above that or will focus on the wrong things like knobs and which string spacing is “best”. When you're ready to step it up (as OP):

- Start with $1300-1800 or so. Prepare to buy bass #2 by having your whole budget PLUS consider selling #1 to fund #2, but get the budget first and sell before you buy. Buy used. you are learning what quality gets you and what is in your head. Don’t get attached, take care of your gear, save documentation, learn how to properly setup and maintain everything yourself. You should be able to adjust a truss rod with ease but be nervous about doing fretwork on your own; at same time, you understand what fretwork is and when it should be considered (ie what a high fret is, maybe how a bad saddle reacts and sounds comparatively, but especially when it’s those / similar and not incorrect action / relief). At this budget, bad fretwork is much less common than in the case of #1. But it happens, more so with used basses.

- Prepare to buy #3 by saving another $1800 AND eventually sell #2 for a $2800-$3600 budget ready to fund bass #3: the “wife” ;
this bass most often highlights one or maybe two of the following three “ideals” many seasoned players eventually fall within as far as what drives their buying habits (generally speaking of course):
A. Ideal Playability
B. Ideal Tone
C. Ideal Aesthetics

Price range: $2800-$3600

at this level, bad fretwork is unacceptable as are neck issues in general unless YOU messed something up. Pickup height, action, straight vs slight relief, plucking pressure, every nuance of your playing can be either defined fully in this build or at minimum you will be unrestrained by limits of your canvas. especially if you’ve bonded with just one instrument, you will have a set comfort point by now, and over time your playing will have developed to take on a well relatively permanent spectrum of mannerisms and muscle memories that make up the amalgam that is “your style.” No need to dress it up more than that, it’s simply the sonic blueprint that your hands have on any given instrument or amp. Distinguishable outside the timbral traits of the physical wood and electronics combo; that said, setup impacts tone way more than people assume.

For many this is actually “the first wife” and there’s nothing wrong with that but I studied economics and am strongly ruled by the belief that any purchase other than the “ideal” (at that particular point, at least) results in loss of funds and/or time you could be developing a singular relationship with one specific bass. With good care, a more nonchalant acquisition approach provides generally acceptable wallet hit if you find a buyer, plus the addition of experience. But as a younger guy for much of my “professional” career, my budget was often limited or slow to build up. It took me about 1.5 years to gather the additional $2K I saved before undergoing each big bass swap. I also didn’t know at the time that my #3 would be the only bass I would use for an entire decade, during which my playing would change and develop tremendously outside of what my young might have planned for at the time.

Personally, I recommend you hit up Pete Skjold for a Stage Series build. That being said, depending on your level of comfort and in some cases only years later, you may be ready for #4 aka the dirk diggler (cause it’s a pretty big effin deal)

I believe $3600 is the magic number , perhaps a bit higher in the past couple years due to some big developments in the bass world. But above that, the law of diminishing returns begins to take effect and above $5500 you will only have taste preferences but no real advantage of one over another except in terms of electronics and aesthetics / fandangled trendy bs [like kaoss pads and finger envelope triggers or whatever that stuff is (answer: gimmicky and presently of little use compositionally for bassists and composers in general; stuff like that is the Skrillex formant growl of 2009 production, millennial pink in 2018 hs/college campuses nationwide, the painfully forced Joe Dart atrophied neck jab of 2017 onward – we get it, you’re really feeling it man; power to the people, you know, and free Tibet and thundercat is god and hoppus sucks and flats or gtfo and mustang headless shortscale purple bass club and all that – ur an individual yes u r)

(I am not Spalding Gray )

So I've lived by this since I was started semi-pro gigging at 15 on the san diego jazz circuit (leonard patton, peter sprague, bob m and Duncan moore et al, cool dudes with chops to share and unmatched willingness to accept squirrelly teenage hippies, but I digress) and thought it might be of value if condensed and shared concisely (hindsight: it wasn’t)

Buy the best bass you can afford - only one. your minimum goal is around $1750. go used, always. invest in a good DI and ignore all notions of tone and stupid poopie like "your style"; it'll happen if you're a player worthy of owning one of the subsequent instruments

After a few early years on an Ibanez, I started on double bass and got a '97 Warwick fretless (#1) that aided in intonation and ear development but never vibed feel-wise, and honestly I dislike bright basses and this one was flamed maple body + ebony fb so, despite being 14 and not fully understanding it, I didn't like the sound. I started gigging actively by high school and at 16 got my first "good" bass, a Modulus FB5 (#2). I had played hundreds of gigs on it by the time I was 18. I always took meticulously good care of it, kept all original invoices etc. I came to dislike the sound and feel it lacked resonance and warmth in certain key frequencies, though I had no qualms feel-wise and at the time couldn't identify the exact frequency range I disliked nor what I liked. That was bass #4.

I toured with a grindcore band using the Modulus and my first Ibanez as my emergency backup (actually used once :/ i never left without at least two 9v ever again) until 2008, when I went to college (partially on a music scholarship). I spent part of the money on a double bass (#3*) and within 4 years had fractured my right wrist for the first of what would be 3 total breaks across wrist and hand, along with increasing issues from carpal tunnel in both wrists, and following a single summer of being unable to hold a bow, I lost my ability to play arco double competently nor the muscle ability to redevelop meaningfully as a jazz double player like i'd hoped without further damage to wrists. Stopped playing double. Still have the bass. Lesson: Don't go too big for your britches and know when to commit and when to hack it as long as acceptable. TB can rationalized otherwise; I have a $6K electric bass and I firmly believe there are times such an investment is 100% reasonable. At the same time, I used a large scholarship to justify a beautiful italian bass I did not deserve to own by merit (take that, scholarship committee) nor would grow into as I rationalized would eventually happen. and it cost more than my Skjold Drakkar that I spec'd out entirely for myself and which brings me joy and a smile every time i see it. point is: which funds were used more effectively, you know?

Anyway, 2008 I discover college and chemicals and the joys of being "exotic" (in a town where , swear to god my first night in town our waitress said quite plainly "well, that school is for the rich kids whereas ____ has a lot of ______ers" - I actually spat out my bite of food in laugh-shock; she was my age and working at a Chiles.) During this time, I experiment largely with my amplifier and use of pedals - important development periods where the quality of the Modulus was more than capable of keeping up though I had clearly lost some allure with the bass itself. In the long run, this is healthy. Play guitar, buy a banjo, sell your amp for a modeler if that blows your hair back - you will strengthen as a player and better inform your future choices in terms of instrument, and may find yourself at some interesting conclusions. roll with it, it's crazy how fast something sweet af one day is passe in no time

A caveat about my #3 - a 2006 Skjold Pro Series Deluxe with neodymium reverse P's, a maple/white wenge neck + black limba body, and the best damn preamp ever designed. this is essentially the same bass as what dave dyson uses and is very bright, forward, and hi-fi. the playability of it, and all Skjolds, is unsurpassed by even equally good builds by Fodera and MTD. but it is damn picky about strings. without the flats, I practically remove the entire treble band before I find the honky sound reasonable. with flats, it's the most versatile session + recording machine around. point is, I insist on dressing up a brunette as a platinum blonde to be satisfied. and the "playing" is good - but perhaps know what you like before that final commitment? perhaps i'm wrong. I played that Skjold exclusively from 19-29 - literally the only piece of gear (along with two red George L's patch cables) I still had ten years later.

Lesson: one good investment, for each 2-3 years it remains without needing upgrade or replacement, is equal to buying another bass of about $1750 total or, alternatively, annually compounded $800 every year. Consider this: a well-chosen custom build not only affords the fluid player-tool relationship we all want with our bass(es), but oft-overlooked is the potential for developing a relationship with the luthier. Pete Skjold is a wizard among men and I thank god I had him to plant ideas in my head at 19 and when I was ready 10 years later, his skills had gotten cleeeean. Pete, as a dude, is one of the coolest guys and I consider it an honor to still work and talk shop with him as recently as yesterday afternoon for example

it was only due to increasingly difficulties from carpal tunnel that I acknowledged the inevitability of having to reconsider my 35" 5 as my exclusive bass; I'd have to find at least a practice backup of a shorter scale to match my 5'7 frame and frail wrists. the 35" was an extension of myself and every muscle memory but it was starting to hurt me in a distinctly noticeable way - stringskipping and independent "snap response" of my touch. Like suddenly I had to control rubber band triggers to coordinate. left hand holds up, right was bitching out fast.

It's lucky that I, largely out of necessity, found my Skjold to be a cherished friend when life was more turbulent than any starry eyed nerd expects at 21 and ruminates on the night before they turn 30. Don't mistake my verbosity for the suiflatuphilia* of self-satisfaction of some enlightened ass, I'm just an academic writer by trade and find it calming so I tend to write most right before I fall asleep, much like people that call their out of town bf/gf or watch 2.5 episodes of 90 day fiance or get their rocks off or something. enjoy, hopefully there's something needle of value in that haystack of what I imagine David Foster Wallace might write if he found himself meandering an empty campus after smoking a handrolled pcp cigarette using the SAT reading section as a rolling paper. Kill’em. Sounds like the wired ass meanderings of a college sophomore with a c- average and an affinity for brett easton ellis and adderall... on his second adderall of the night. Can’t you see it? "i play bass. i'm dark and moody. i've read 6 pages of infinite jest but insist it's my favorite book"

Brought to you by the letter 31hz, being stuck in head, Covid loneliness, and cannabis sativa cultivar “Jack Herer”
 
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nonohmic : "resale value" has nothing at all to do with buying a musical instrument. "resale value" is for folks who don't know what they like, or for those who say they know what they like but who are wrong about it, e.g., "...as it turns out..."! if you are even remotely concerned about resale value = don't spend 2k on either option!

if you have to 'hedge your bet' with the idea of resale value, i'd wager that you have 2k burning a hole in your pocket. the 'investment' you make in a fine musical instrument has nothing to do with that: it's about satisfaction, over and over and over again.

good luck with your investment! :thumbsup:

Very well said.

Im actually quite surprised by the number of people who take resale into consideration when buying "their own" bass (or gear). Sounds more like these folks are gear traders/sellers rather than someone looking for the bass that they really want.
 
Very well said. Im actually quite surprised by the number of people who take resale into consideration when buying "their own" bass (or gear). Sounds more like these folks are gear traders/sellers rather than someone looking for the bass that they really want.
ha! thanks, bassdirty! yeah, one cat was so offended by my comments that he kept trying to draw me out! :laugh: he just couldn't accept that a person might actually think that way...and i thought it was the easiest concept to grasp because it eliminates all the variables in 'horse-trading'. ;)
 
I went through a boutique period about 10 years ago. My main issue with ordering a custom instrument is you can never really be 100% sure that it’s going to sound and feel right ... because it doesn’t actually exist yet.

What I like about production basses is that the thing already exists in the real world. So, you can play a bunch of them and see which one really speaks to you.

In theory, it shouldn’t make a difference. But we all know that, in real life, some instruments have that “it factor” and many (most?) don’t. I’ve played a million Jazz Basses over the last 30 years: a few have really stood out; only one was spectacular. And that’s the one you want.
 
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Very well said.

Im actually quite surprised by the number of people who take resale into consideration when buying "their own" bass (or gear). Sounds more like these folks are gear traders/sellers rather than someone looking for the bass that they really want.

Because it's unpossible to do both?
:meh:

Here's a shocker for some folks...

you can buy gear that can finance your next purchase. By flipping gear I've ended up with several boutique basses that ended up being free. That's right, I ultimately spent less than you did on your Squier.
:meh:

Free. And most of it is worth more than the cost of acquisition.

And yeah, I sure do care about resale value. I base what I'll spend on it, among other things.

There's no complicated math involved. And I have fun with different gear while I'm doing it.
:D
 
Regarding the resale value of a bass, that would not come into play as a factor if I was getting another bass. As far as buying used, both basses I ever bought used ended up having problems I didn't recognize at the time. Shelling out 2 grand for a used bass..........nope. I'd pay 3 grand or 4 grand for a new one first. I'm set for the rest of my life regarding bass guitars though. All I can say is that I never regretted spending more on new.

Lots of people are better at buying and selling than I am, I acknowledge that. Lots of people enjoy wheeling and dealing as well, I'd like to enjoy it but just don't.
 
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For 2k budget, I will always pick high end production. Things like Musicman, G&L, Spector Euro, Ric. And I'll usually pick used unless it just isn't available used.
You can even easily touch on cool vintage items like MM Sabre, Gibson Ripper, BC Rich Eagle.

The thing I don't like about 'anything goes' customs is them being unpredictable. When they offer a million choices and combos with no consistency, then you don't know what its going end up being until it's built, and you may or may not like it.
 
My rule of thumb is: if I have to ask, then the answer is no.

Now while this is not what you’re asking (at least not explicitly), my answer would be no to a custom bass. In other words, unless you’re sure you need a custom bass (no other will do), don’t get one. You don’t seem to be sure that you need a custom bass, so...
THIS/|\
 
Because it's unpossible to do both?
:meh:

Here's a shocker for some folks...

you can buy gear that can finance your next purchase. By flipping gear I've ended up with several boutique basses that ended up being free. That's right, I ultimately spent less than you did on your Squier.
:meh:

Free. And most of it is worth more than the cost of acquisition.

And yeah, I sure do care about resale value. I base what I'll spend on it, among other things.

There's no complicated math involved. And I have fun with different gear while I'm doing it.
:D

Totally agree.

Those respondents in this subthread sounded like they were talking about what basically boils down to the "holy grail instrument" syndrome - where the player thinks there is such a thing as a perfect instrument that will turn them into the player they really want to be. That would appear to have been why they were criticizing the OP for worrying about resale - the instrument is what makes the player, not the other way around, so you should be able to choose that instrument exactly from the get-go, and you're showing your inexperience by worrying about resale.

It's a common syndrome but unfortunately, it's the road to financial (and often career too) ruin if you take it to heart.

Out here in the real world there is no such thing, of course, and as a pure practical matter, no matter how attractive that "holy grail" instrument looks to you, a smart shopper will accept the fact that that bass may not, in fact, go to the grave with him. And that he may have to get rid of it one day to finance another instrument that he later discovers might suit his needs better.

That's apart from the good point about turning basses, another completely legitimate reason for being attentive to resale.

It's just a fact of life that a) nobody is able to perfectly assess the suitability of an instrument until they play it and play it a lot and b) because of a), the chances are always non-zero that you may eventually have to sell even a "holy grail" bass. That can be for any number of reasons, reasons you can think of at the moment and plan for in the future and those you can't. It's just being smart with your money and your future as a bass player....

L
 
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Yes! A good setup and neck angle adjustment can do wonders.
This is what I don't understand about folks that insist on building a bass from parts and expecting high quality.
Making something out of wood in a high production shop and holding tolerances to a few thousandths at a low price can not be an everyday occurrence.
Even at your old shop, when buying the best parts, isn't there a fair amount of set up to include leveling and crowing of frets?
While this may not be rocket science, I would think it takes years of experience to become great at it.
 
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This is what I don't understand about folks that insist on building a bass from parts and expecting high quality.
Making something out of wood in a high production shop and holding tolerances to a few thousandths at a low price can not be an everyday occurrence.
Even at your old shop, when buying the best parts, isn't there a fair amount of set up to include leveling and crowing of frets?
While this may not be rocket science, I would think it takes years of experience to become great at it.

You’d be surprised at how much thought goes into programming and designing the neck placket and angle. And then how much effort goes into getting it just right for each individual instrument.

I think it’s possible to make a parts bass that is pretty great for most people...but it requires a fair amount of skill and work.

I see any bass as a process anyway. Not an end in itself.
 
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Agreed that the instrument is the sum of the design, engineering, and all the parts.
I worked in a machine shop and grew up around the trade.
The idea of trying to hold tight tolerances with a hand file seems daunting.
CNC on the other hand make sense assuming you have access to a Plek machine.
Did I once read that NYC Sadowsky's had the frets hand filed?
 
Agreed that the instrument is the sum of the design, engineering, and all the parts.
I worked in a machine shop and grew up around the trade.
The idea of trying to hold tight tolerances with a hand file seems daunting.
CNC on the other hand make sense assuming you have access to a Plek machine.
Did I once read that NYC Sadowsky's had the frets hand filed?

Yep, no plek. You don’t need one.
 
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If it was me, I'd be looking into the used market these days. A lot of great deals out there on custom basses.

But I keep saying, if you have never played a neck through USA NS Spector, you don't have a good idea of what can be compared to.

It took me years to get there, but finally I figured it out.
 
2k doesn't get you much with a big company. Example, Fenders reworked vintage USA line, I ordered the 60's Jazz bass and I was not impressed. 2k with a independent luthier with a good reputation should get something very special. I of course reccomend Cataldo Basses.
 

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