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Highschool female westler wins by forfeit

No one's doubting that. But a lot of it has to do with mutual respect. I have my religious beliefs (notice no quotations), but yet I'm not going to go bash someone just because their Hindu, or Agnostic, or Buddhist.

I'm not bashing...I'm just saying that a reason of religious beliefs doesn't count for much in my world. There are too many religious beliefs that are just plain wrong or outright illegal to validate any of them. And the ones that are not wrong or illegal are just common sense that all modern societies follow...don't steal, kill, etc. You don't need religion to know those things are wrong.

And in this case, the only religious belief that could be relevent is simple sexism...females don't belong in a "men only" event.
 
i only wrestled my freshman year, but the range of weight classes a girl couldve realistically competed in (face it, you wont find many 17 year old chicks that are all muscle and cut down to like 170 or something [forget the weight categories... wrestled at 145 then quit]). thinking back, our 102 lb guy was 3rd or 2nd in state the year before, and the other small guys (well... smaller... i wasnt huge) wouldve handled a chick. i dont mean to sound sexist, but there is a pretty solid biological benefit for guys.

that said, ive seen guys wrestle girls, though ive never seen a highly ranked or competitive girl wrestle (just my experience, though iowa does tend to have quality wrestling). i read this and i see two sides that see eye to eye and respect each other in their choices. i dont see controversy. forfeiture is an option for a reason; sometimes it makes sense.
 
I'm not bashing...I'm just saying that a reason of religious beliefs doesn't count for much in my world. There are too many religious beliefs that are just plain wrong or outright illegal to validate any of them. And the ones that are not wrong or illegal are just common sense that all modern societies follow...don't steal, kill, etc. You don't need religion to know those things are wrong.

And in this case, the only religious belief that could be relevent is simple sexism...females don't belong in a "men only" event.

I see where you're coming from. But fwiw, I wasn't saying you were the one bashing, I was just saying that's why I think religion has caused so many problems is the lack of mutual respect.
 
Stop putting words in my mouth with your silly post-modern BS. Where did I say I was "open minded" about other people's beliefs? Yeah, I didn't, but go ahead and just build that strawman anyhow.

Not all beliefs are equal, the belief that the world is flat does not deserve respect, the belief that slamming a plane into a skyscraper reserves a spot for you in shangri la does not deserve respect, and neither does the concept that women are inferior to men and should be treated as such.

How about if it was a black kid, and his "religious belief" was that you don't ever interact with "people of mixed blood?" Would it have been unfair for them to pit the kid against a black kid, since it went against his religious beliefs? Would it be inappropriate for me not to "respect" that decision as well?

How about a gay kid?

directed towards the thread in general: the "sexual harassment" argument some of you are making is ridiculous. this girl wrestles on the team just like the boys, she made it to "state" so clearly she's got some experience. what exactly makes you think that any male wrestler on that team couldn't make the exact same sexual harassment charge against the other player? why does it have to be a female to all of a sudden be a concern?

Fine so you're not open minded, you just think everyone should be on an equal playing field until their religious beliefs come into play, and then it's fair game?
 
Fine so you're not open minded, you just think everyone should be on an equal playing field until their religious beliefs come into play, and then it's fair game?

Well, I don't care whether you stick the word "religious" in there or not. Everyone should be equal until someone espouses beliefs that are clearly ignorant, needlessly hateful, pointlessly discriminatory, or endanger others... then "religious" or not, your belief sucks and doesn't deserve my respect.
 
Well, I don't care whether you stick the word "religious" in there or not. Everyone should be equal until someone espouses beliefs that are clearly ignorant, needlessly hateful, pointlessly discriminatory, or endanger others... then "religious" or not, your belief sucks and doesn't deserve my respect.

Ah right, everyone's beliefs should fall in line with your own, and when they don't, then they're not worthy of your respect. Whether or not they actually have any negative consequences, like in this case.

How so very hypocritical.
 
Ah right, everyone's beliefs should fall in line with your own, and when they don't, then they're not worthy of your respect. Whether or not they actually have any negative consequences, like in this case.

How so very hypocritical.

I don't know what you're not getting here fella. Maybe the negative consequences of sexism are lost on you, or maybe you just don't understand how the concept of "respect" works. Act disrespectful and I stop respecting you, nothing hypocritical about judging people based on their character.
 
To hell with religion, sexism and political correctness. The concept of boys fighting girls at highschool level is dumb.
I'm not religious in any way, yet I'd refuse to fight with a woman.

First because I've been taught not to pretty much since I was born. As a men I am wired to protect women, not harm them.

Second because it is not a fair fight. I'd hold back as a mean not to hurt her, even if she was a fierce fighter. She'd be disadvantaged by her proportional lack of physical strengh, since categories are taylored by weight. At equal weight, men have a lot more strength and muscle than women.
 
When I was in high school there weren't girls water polo teams. So we used to get matched up with teams that had girls on them. I used to know a lot of these girls from swimming. We all grew up playing grab@$$ with each other. Well, they were all docile and coy during swim practice but they were ruthless with their underwater game. When guarding against another guy there's an unspoken understanding that the jewels were off limits when battling underwater. Kidney shots with the knees, elbows in the rib, and the occasional head butt were all and acceptable part of the game, but no one ever went for the balls on purpose. If a dude hit another dude in the nuts it meant all out war. Someone was going home to pee blood. So if an occasional grape got grazed it was usually an accident followed by a very heartfelt and sincere apology. But the chicks never played by any such understanding. It was ALL fair game to them. Some of these chicks were ejected quite regularly for making the player they were guarding scream in agony.

But a few of them got off on playing rough. It was very common for standard underwater jabs to turn into a full on grope session with a mean flavor. But the worse was my friend Kari, who later went on to marry a buddy of mine. She was ripped with double-D gigantors and she would reach right down your suit and latch on. Well we were playing a varsity game my sophomore year and her junior year and because she was a fast swimmer I was usually put on the task of guarding her because being that I was the sprinter for the team I was pretty much the only one that could keep up with her.

I remember it distinctly. It was the fourth quarter and it was getting down to the wire. She had her hand down my suit and I had my hand down hers. This was beyond nipple twists, this was all out war. She wasn't letting go, and when the ball was passed to me, she promptly inserted her finger right up my starfish. Because I had the ball, I didn't have a free hand to manage the situation. She had it jammed right past the monkey knuckle. It was like kryptonite. Suddenly I had no strength. I just has this weird uncomfortable tingling numbess that just sapped any kind of muscle strength I had left in my body. It was like that feeling when your foot goes to sleep but over your whole body. I managed to weakly toss the ball inside, and broke free, but it was game on. She we both got a few fingers for the rest of the quarter and it was ugly. The final minute my team was up by one point and they had possession. We were locked in a vicious game of uncle. I'm pretty sure she was using just one finger but it felt like a fist and I know that I also had multiple digits committed the cause. We were staring each other eye to eye and trying not to let the other person see tears of agony. The game ended, they didn't score, and we went our separate ways. But for the rest of our lives since then we have always shared that moment, even if it was nothing more than occasional head lift to say 'I'm watching you'. We both knew that we had thoroughly violated each other and somewhere in there we had earned a deep mutual respect for each other. Saw her last year and we had a moment where we both passed each other in the kitchen. Neither one of us would let each other see our backs, just in case. We laugh about it now, but we still sleep with one eye open.

Wow that is beyond ****ed up. Was there a ref at these games or was a "Lord of the Flies" affair?


I'm usually not up tight on this kinda stuff but if i were a parent and found out about that sort of thing going on i wouldn't stop until they'd turned the pool into a tennis court. :hmm:
 
Wow that is beyond ****ed up. Was there a ref at these games or was a "Lord of the Flies" affair?


I'm usually not up tight on this kinda stuff but if i were a parent and found out about that sort of thing going on i wouldn't stop until they'd turned the pool into a tennis court. :hmm:

C'mon ... it's Maki. He was loving every second of it.
 
Number27 said:
Wow that is beyond ****ed up. Was there a ref at these games or was a "Lord of the Flies" affair?

I'm usually not up tight on this kinda stuff but if i were a parent and found out about that sort of thing going on i wouldn't stop until they'd turned the pool into a tennis court. :hmm:

It's water polo. It's a vicious game underwater. There are refs. Flagrant fouls get called, but most slips by unseen. Flops are not rewarded either. This isn't the NBA.
 
I see it as a no win scenario. If you win it's well yeah, but you beat a girl. If you lose, it's ha ha you lost to a girl.

Co-ed wrestling should be confined to the bedroom!

I also recall hearing the male wresler got suspendeed from the sport?
 
To hell with religion, sexism and political correctness. The concept of boys fighting girls at highschool level is dumb.
I'm not religious in any way, yet I'd refuse to fight with a woman.

First because I've been taught not to pretty much since I was born. As a men I am wired to protect women, not harm them.

Second because it is not a fair fight. I'd hold back as a mean not to hurt her, even if she was a fierce fighter. She'd be disadvantaged by her proportional lack of physical strengh, since categories are taylored by weight. At equal weight, men have a lot more strength and muscle than women.

So, would you also hold back against a male in your weight class with low testosterone and less strength than you? That wouldn't be a fair fight either would it? I'm not attacking you with that line of questioning, I'm actually curious to your answer. Either way, it is a bit tangential so take it with a grain of salt... I don't think I have an overarching point to make about it, and I'm not intending to try and "trap" you based on your answer.

Anyhow, I really don't even have that big of a problem with the guy forfeiting, it seems like the sporting thing to do. He didn't want to participate in the event, so he forfeited to his opponent... in those regards it worked out just fine. It doesn't seem that he complained about having to take the loss, it's the peanut gallery that is doing that. However, I still don't respect the actual underlying belief that you should treat a woman differently than a man even when they specifically request that you treat them as an equal.
 
Ah right, everyone's beliefs should fall in line with your own, and when they don't, then they're not worthy of your respect.


Whether they are worthy of respect is unrelated to whether they agree with me or not... that doesn't change a whit the fact that many beliefs aren't worthy of respect, and are worthy of derision.

Whether or not they actually have any negative consequences, like in this case.

They did have negative consequences in this case.
 
I wrestled in high school. I don't know how I would've handled wrestling a female opponent. I can say I'd treat her exactly the same as all the others, but I don't know how it would actually work out.

I don't get this water polo that Maki described. It's like hockey after a thaw.
 
To hell with religion, sexism and political correctness. The concept of boys fighting girls at highschool level is dumb.
I'm not religious in any way, yet I'd refuse to fight with a woman.

First because I've been taught not to pretty much since I was born. As a men I am wired to protect women, not harm them.

Second because it is not a fair fight. I'd hold back as a mean not to hurt her, even if she was a fierce fighter. She'd be disadvantaged by her proportional lack of physical strengh, since categories are taylored by weight. At equal weight, men have a lot more strength and muscle than women.
I am not sure at that weight level and age:confused: it might be a fair fight. The gymnastics world has minimum age limits because younger girls can generate relatively more power compared to their body weight then women can. With a different center of gravity on top of that girls may be able to hold their own with boys of a certain size.

Socially however the boy still will have been taught to hold back and since a pin is not the 1,2, 3 of pro wrestling he may lose before he realizes that he is in a competitive fight and his fight or flight reflexes activate

Is it a single elimination tournament or is it possible that all the top boys can forfeit until one of them has to face her in actual combat in the finals?