• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Hobbyists -vs- Real Musicians?

Interesting exchanges. I understand that there are many different "walks of life" on this site and respect them all. When I read threads like this it makes me think about the difference between the 70's-90's for live musicians (full-time, no other jobs) and now. The importance of live music and musicians who play live music has drastically declined. Wages have essentially stayed flat during this whole time. A 5-piece band making $500 in 1982 was not bad money if you were consistently playing gigs. Those prices have stagnated or gone down. People just don't care (I'm generalizing of course) about live music as an entertainment choice for their evening.

I think audience's expectations have increased. We want lights and lasers and video screens to be entertained. We watch everything in 4K high definition surround sound, so a band playing at your local bar isn't a huge attraction any longer. Add in DUI crack downs, which I agree with, and people are more reluctant to hit the bar and drink for three hours then drive home. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I really like the 7-10:00 shows where your crowd can come out and eat a meal and have a beer. Once you get past dinner time, you feel like you should be buying round after round instead of nursing a beer all night. Yeah, I'm definitely old. No enjoyment in getting trashed - plus I'm kind of a lightweight when it comes to drinking.
 
If some folks want to get their panties in a wad about definitions, that's no concern of mine. I've got better, more important things to occupy my time. For decades, I made money in bands as a second income, sometimes up to 3-4 gigs a week. Call it what you will, no skin off my butt!
Then why "occupy your time" ragging on people's opinions (which is all they are). Sheesh, every message board becomes the same regardless of topic
 
A typical European would answer with "Oh, I enjoy soccer, or playing bass, or driving cars," while a typical American would answer "Oh, I'm a CPA, or a project manager, or a civil engineer."

can´t speak for other europeans, but the typical german would tell you his occupation first.
we don´t enjoy anything other than work ;)
 
i "have been" ---
- an aspiring musician
- a part-time musician
- a full-time musician (about 20 years)
- an out of work musician
- a successful musician
- an unsuccessful musician
- fulfilled as a musician
- frustrated as a musician
- respected as a musician
- disrespected as a musician...

...yada yada.

i think that if you are a real musician = you know it and others probably know it, too.

i think that if you're not a real musician = you know it and others probably know it, too.

;)


edit: for "real"
 
Last edited:
I wholeheartedly agree (with the blue). Not so crazy 'bout the red, depends on definition of 'successful,' I guess.

Who fronts just about all bands? Rush aside, the dude / dudette out front is playing guitar and singing. Generally they have all the writing credits too. If I were to suggest a path to musical success and prosperity, it wouldn't be bass. Get out front, sing and have the band named after you. Unfortunately I have a vocal range of about three notes. I would literally kill to get the voice of some of the people that I know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wmmj and HolmeBass
Why do we care so much about what everyone else is doing?

It's a good way for others to disqualify stay-at-home players.
I've encountered it a fair bit. "Don't you only play at home?" or "Haven't you admitted you never play out?" right after giving my opinion on something.

Once upon a time I'd engage them & argue, but what's the point?, they've already drawn their conclusion.
One guy even went so far as to hassle me about my hearing in every amp thread he found me in, & poking fun that I only "play out" in my backyard.

TBH, I could never be a musician, haven't got the ears for it, but I do know what I like & what I don't. If even my untrained ears can hear that, it should mean something.
 
It's a good way for others to disqualify stay-at-home players.
I've encountered it a fair bit. "Don't you only play at home?" or "Haven't you admitted you never play out?" right after giving my opinion on something.

Once upon a time I'd engage them & argue, but what's the point?, they've already drawn their conclusion.
One guy even went so far as to hassle me about my hearing in every amp thread he found me in, & poking fun that I only "play out" in my backyard.

I'll admit that when it comes to gear advice, if you haven't played in a gig situation it is definitely a caveat to what works with a band and what doesn't.
 
Another random thought - I think that as musicians, we tend to over inflate our resumés a lot of times -

Played Woodstock - I played the Woodstock Inn

Myself, I have been guilty - played to over 5 million people (true), on national television (true), played to 70,000 stadiums (true) bass solos for arenas (true) paid for this (true)

I played at home games for the Baltimore Ravens for seven years. Founding member of the "Rhythm Section" that played with the marching band and on our own. So, while it's true that I've played to more people in one day than I'll probably ever cumulatively play to in my post Ravens musical journey, nobody knew my name or was there to see me play. It also sucked that we were forbidden to take pics during the game thanks to New England's photo gate. So, I missed out on a ton of cool pics. Don't get me wrong, it was a cool gig while it lasted and playing "Seven Nation Army" while 70,000 sing along is freaking cool. But, I'm no Pino.
 
Getting paid/monetized = Pro

Years ago, I played in bars. I got paid. Not much, but by your definition, since I got paid, I was a "pro". As I didn't work that hard at it, I'd consider myself a "hobbyist" at that point.

Now I play in churches. I don't get paid. I do play in front of 20x as many people, I practice a LOT more, I'm a much better player than I was before, and the music we make together is (my opinion) undeniably better.

I'm a much more "real" musician now than when I was a hobbyist "pro".
 
  • Like
Reactions: wmmj and DaDo625
We're in a society that values authenticity. We value going all-in, and committing fully to whatever we're doing. I heard a podcast one time (maybe Art Of Manliness) talking about why we as Americans feel the need to be so extreme like that...the example they used was the question "So, what do you do?" A typical European would answer with "Oh, I enjoy soccer, or playing bass, or driving cars," while a typical American would answer "Oh, I'm a CPA, or a project manager, or a civil engineer."

Our expectation, when hearing that someone plays guitar, is that they're a gigging musician...maybe they play at church on Sundays, or in the bars on Friday and Saturday...but the fact is, we're not prepared to hear that someone just does something for fun.

Yeah it does feel like that... everything you do has to bring money
 
A frequent side topic on many threads covers "real musicians" - you have to gig five nights a week to consider yourself a real musician. And then the - if you don't play originals, you're just playing someone else's music, might as well be a juke box -vs- play covers - it's what the crowd wants to hear. Then the classic - if you have expensive basses, you're a bedroom hack, it's all in the fingers.

Why do we care so much about what everyone else is doing? We're all bassists and just the fact that we chose bass means that we're largely taking a backseat to the rest of the band. Copyrights are determined by lyrics, chord progressions and melodies. Screw the bass line. If we really wanted to be successful musicians, we'd work on vocal skills and play an acoustic fronting a band. So, maybe it's pent up frustration about nobody really caring about what the bass does until we screw up - then people notice.

If you just enjoy playing at home - that's great! You're still playing bass! If you play originals - awesome! If you're into covers or a tribute - rock it strong! Play a Squier - kudos! Play a MTD - great! Only a very few are actually going to make a living at this. Getting home at 2:30AM for $75-100 gets old quickly for some.

If you are playing bass and find enjoyment in what you do, you're doing it right.
Because: the internet.
The once great ideal of having a digital library of Alexandria where enlightened minds could come together and have respectful, high minded debates turned out to be a real $#!+ show.
People having opinions is nothing new. People having opinions about other people, their behaviors, or their likes is also nothing new. What is new is that we have a live feed directly into everyone's lives now, so we have more opportunities to have opinions about other people's stuff, and an anonymous bullhorn with which to be annoying about our disapproval. Before we just talked smack behind each other's back about the things immediately around us; now we can do it from our keyboards about stuff halfway across the world.
Yay!
What does that have to do with the OP? If not for the joys of the web, I would have no idea that cover bands are getting paid when original artists are not. Heck I would think that cover bands are for musicians that do it as a hobby because I only ever see people playing covers at car shows and county fairs. I would have no idea that some people translate "pro" to a hired gun.
It is completely counter to my reality and my experience; and that's where the trouble with the internet starts.
Does it matter? No. Or it shouldn't. And if I wasn't aware of the fact that Joey Fedora was getting paid to play Mustang Sally for the millionth time, while I literally lose money nearly every time I play because I am trying to do something new, I wouldn't have an opinion about it.
However, the internet is like picking up a paving stone in your yard. You can't unsee the squirming life that skitters away when you do, even when you put it back down. You will know all of those creepy crawlies are still just fractions of an inch away from you when you walk on them.
Not getting turned up about something counter to your world view is a higher ideal, but let's face it, human's have to constantly write down our higher ideals because we stink at them.
Ignorance may be bliss after all.
 
I believe a lot of people are still hung up on some initial, maybe childhood, concept of “making it big”—-whatever that meant to them—and they are still trying to conform definitions of words like “musician” and “professional” and “success” in ways that make them feel good about themselves, while of course discouraging others.

I'm mostly pissed at myself because I now realize that I focused on the wrong things for about 20 years.
 
A frequent side topic on many threads covers "real musicians" - you have to gig five nights a week to consider yourself a real musician. And then the - if you don't play originals, you're just playing someone else's music, might as well be a juke box -vs- play covers - it's what the crowd wants to hear. Then the classic - if you have expensive basses, you're a bedroom hack, it's all in the fingers.

Why do we care so much about what everyone else is doing? We're all bassists and just the fact that we chose bass means that we're largely taking a backseat to the rest of the band. Copyrights are determined by lyrics, chord progressions and melodies. Screw the bass line. If we really wanted to be successful musicians, we'd work on vocal skills and play an acoustic fronting a band. So, maybe it's pent up frustration about nobody really caring about what the bass does until we screw up - then people notice.

If you just enjoy playing at home - that's great! You're still playing bass! If you play originals - awesome! If you're into covers or a tribute - rock it strong! Play a Squier - kudos! Play a MTD - great! Only a very few are actually going to make a living at this. Getting home at 2:30AM for $75-100 gets old quickly for some.

If you are playing bass and find enjoyment in what you do, you're doing it right.
I have my own opinions about what "real" music is, but you won't find me sharing them here. If people enjoy what they are doing and other people enjoy listening, then everybody is happy. If you're not happy about this situation, then maybe the problem isn't with the happy band or the happy audience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HolmeBass