Hofner outselling Fender

[Deleted member 271037]

For what it's worth Thomann's current list of top sellers in the category "Electric Basses" looks like this:

1) Harley Benton JB75MN NA Vintage Series (wonderful basses that are comparable to MIM Fenders IMO)
2) Höfner Ignition SE
...
...
...
13) Squier CV 60s Jazz Bass 3TS

No Fenders in the top 20, the best selling Squier is number 13. The rest of the top 20 list are Marcus Millers plus more Harley Bentons and Squiers. There are no other Höfners in the top 20.

Of course it's the Beatles documentary. Without The Beatles Höfner would probably have ended up like Framus at best or Klira at worst (just to mention two manufacturers that originated from the same area).

I'm a huge Höfner fan BTW. The currently manufactured Made in Germany instruments are works of art. Way into custom shop/boutique territory IMO. But I still don't think Höfner would outsell Fender without The Beatles. And of course, if we compare the sales of ALL Höfner models with the sales of ALL Fender models I'm pretty sure Fender still outsell Höfner by a large margin. As much as I love Höfners there's no denying that a P-bass is more versatile (even though I personally think Höfners are far more versatile than some give them credit for).

 

[Slapndbayass]

As much as I love Höfners there's no denying that a P-bass is more versatile (even though I personally think Höfners are far more versatile than some give them credit for).

I agree that the P bass is versatile. I have an MIJ for Japan market P bass and it sounds and plays great over the MIA version I had before. And the Hofner it was just kismet that McCartney chose that to create music that seeded a universe. It is what it is. Building, Hofner cuts some quirky corners using nails to anchor a pick guard. Uses white/black/white nut material to hold the nail for the pick guard. No two German Hofner are exactly alike. Maybe they are now MIC with CNC's doing the honors. There's always something different they did at the German factory. The pickup distances are never exactly the same space or mounting position. They changed logo designs several times. Thing about the Hofner it has more bass ability because of the hollow body and easier to get a boom tone. But if the piano string tone is needed then look to other models. Basic anchor bass is what one gets from a Hofner. New players grasp that instant bass sound without having to work too hard at it.

I paid $100 for my '70's Hofner. Needs work. Soon to visit a luthier with a little luck. Has the late '60's blade pickups. Boom for days.

 

[jd56hawk]

Dang, this is just pure nonsense no mater whichaway y'all figure it.
In my town, we got us a nice little general store.
Feller who owned it died 'bout a year ago and the new owner changed things a mite. Instead of Red Man chewing tobacco, he started selling Kodiak.
Hell, I'm a Red Man man and have been since I was eleven, so I asked him why he done switched and he told me Kodiak outsells Red Man all over the world. He figured folks "round here'd like it oncet they tried it.
Now, I sure as shootin' didn't believe him, but I came right back and said "That don't mean it's a better tobacco, do it?"
He didn't have no answer to that so he says "You might want to try Amazon. They can overnight it."
Well sir, I didn't know jest what he was gettin' at and I didn't want to get into a big rhubarb, so I just bought a tin of the Kodiak, and it weren't bad.
Nowheres near as good as Red Man but hell, is costed two-bits cheaper, so...
Anyways, t'ain't no way Hofner sells more'n Fender is what I'm tryin' to say!

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I agree that the P bass is versatile. I have an MIJ for Japan market P bass and it sounds and plays great over the MIA version I had before. And the Hofner it was just kismet that McCartney chose that to create music that seeded a universe. It is what it is. Building, Hofner cuts some quirky corners using nails to anchor a pick guard. Uses white/black/white nut material to hold the nail for the pick guard. No two German Hofner are exactly alike. Maybe they are now MIC with CNC's doing the honors. There's always something different they did at the German factory. The pickup distances are never exactly the same space or mounting position. They changed logo designs several times. Thing about the Hofner it has more bass ability because of the hollow body and easier to get a boom tone. But if the piano string tone is needed then look to other models. Basic anchor bass is what one gets from a Hofner. New players grasp that instant bass sound without having to work too hard at it.

I paid $100 for my '70's Hofner. Needs work. Soon to visit a luthier with a little luck. Has the late '60's blade pickups. Boom for days.

Yeah, Höfners are quirky instruments for sure! But using nails to anchor the pickguard isn't really about cutting corners. It was just the way they did it back in the day on archtop/hollowbody guitars. It's more about tradition than cutting corners IMO. Höfner started out in the late 1880s which means they have a totally different history than say Fender, which was all about streamlined mass manufacturing from day1.

The cheaper current Höfners are mass manufactured and Made in China of course. The Ignition series have a slightly different shape and use different parts (meaning original German Höfner parts won't fit). I find them comparable to similarly priced Höfner clones. The Contemporary series are on a completey different level. They are still MIC but actually VERY good instruments made to exact Höfner specs in Höfner's own factory, by workers trained by Höfner and using German Höfner parts (like pickups). And then there's the current Made in Germany instruments. These are TOP quality instruments and VERY consistent in my experience. Possibly the best instruments they've ever made, but also very expensive.

Of course there are lots of variation when looking at VINTAGE Höfners. They were handmade and the specs changed a bit over the years. There's nothing wrong with that IMO. I certainly don't see people complaining about this with vintage violins, cellos, etc.

A P-bass will of course be more versatile but when a Höfner works for the song/genre it can be amazing. It's all about that BOOM you referred to, especially when the switches are set for "Macca". It won't always work but when it does... pure magic!

 

[Slapndbayass]

But using nails to anchor the pickguard isn't really about cutting corners. It was just the way they did it back in the day on archtop/hollowbody guitars. It's more about tradition than cutting corners IMO. Höfner started out in the late 1880s which means they have a totally different history than say Fender, which was all about streamlined mass manufacturing from day1.

Yes I can see that the nail is a hold over from ancient times. But when the pick guard falls off while you're playing it, that's when tradition needs a readjustment in the build. Not sure if pick guards were always around back several hundred years ago.

My '70 has the neck build where Hofner tried to improve the neck joint. So Hofner did think to bring things into the 20th at least. But the reissue Beatle basses went back to the weaker joint/staple pickups. I don't know if the MIC Hofners have the modern neck joint. Yes China can build what you want and they get a bad rap sometimes when it's beyond their control. Not to say that some of their merchandise isn't shaky. But branded items will have a rein or two on how things go at the factory.

I don't know if Hofner is outselling any brand for that matter. But the playing field will find its level based on the buyer's tastes. And soon if shipping becomes a bottle neck things will change. If you can't import something, you will source something in your country as an alternative. Same as it ever was.

Before my Hofner gave up the glue, playing it had this glorious bass tone and it was so easy. I played it through a Hartke Bi-amp 7000 model with a Peavey 2x10 cab crossed over to a custom built birch ply 18". Boom for days. No Entwhistle tones mind you. I'm anxious to use it on a few tracks.

My mainstay tracking tool believe it or not is an SX PNut clone 5 string. All mahogany. China can build them. Just slapped some stainless DR Lo-Riders on there and away we go.

 

[jeffb28451]

So is Skycruiser admitting to the definition of "trolling", also?

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

Hofner just hit number one on Reverb again. Good times!

 

[mouthmw]

I don't trust these lists. They can put whatever they want on them. I doubt it's automated and based on actual sales. Even if it is, meh, doesn't really mean much.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

I don't trust these lists. They can put whatever they want on them. I doubt it's automated and based on actual sales. Even if it is, meh, doesn't really mean much.

People do tend to ignore evidence that is contrary to their biases. There is a lot of research that confirms this if you're interested.

 

[mouthmw]

People do tend to ignore evidence that is contrary to their biases. There is a lot of research that confirms this if you're interested.

I'm an IT for a music store chain, I know how these lists are made lol. It's fine though, I don't really care either way. Like I said, could be perfectly legit. Could be based on best selling items this week, this month, or whatever time period.

 

[5StringBlues]

Dang, this is just pure nonsense no mater whichaway y'all figure it.
In my town, we got us a nice little general store.
Feller who owned it died 'bout a year ago and the new owner changed things a mite. Instead of Red Man chewing tobacco, he started selling Kodiak.
Hell, I'm a Red Man man and have been since I was eleven, so I asked him why he done switched and he told me Kodiak outsells Red Man all over the world. He figured folks "round here'd like it oncet they tried it.
Now, I sure as shootin' didn't believe him, but I came right back and said "That don't mean it's a better tobacco, do it?"
He didn't have no answer to that so he says "You might want to try Amazon. They can overnight it."
Well sir, I didn't know jest what he was gettin' at and I didn't want to get into a big rhubarb, so I just bought a tin of the Kodiak, and it weren't bad.
Nowheres near as good as Red Man but hell, is costed two-bits cheaper, so...
Anyways, t'ain't no way Hofner sells more'n Fender is what I'm tryin' to say!

RAVID!

 

[Mrtoodamnsabre]

Someone here said shortscale madness isn’t real there’s always been an enthusiasm for them. It’s real! They’re getting re-evaluated, cause the lowest notes on them sound better than on a long scale. You have to have fancy electronics and mute pads to get the same kinda sound out of a full scale. Short scales sound more like post production bass than normal scale basses do and people are finally catching on

 

[marchone]

So, for whatever it's worth, these sales lists seem to answer another age old TalkBass question: Which Fender bass model outsells the other, Precision or Jazz?

It seems the answer is the Precision.