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Horrible sound dude needs advice

#41
gumtown said:
What happens when singer #2 is excluded from the mix? does the problem disappear?
He might be needing some mic technique training,
excessive use of vocal effects will contribute to feedback too.
Click to expand...

I've had to mute his channel if his gain is too high. Not bad when his gain is set at the minimum. He just needs to get his filthy sewer closer to the mic!

I spent numerous hours last night and today reading pro audio "how to" guides and watching the same on YT. I'm convinced our issue is because of;

1) no gain staging / ringing the monitors out

2) poor monitor placement

3) mics are too hot and picking up the hard hitting drummer
 
#43
BAG said:
I didn't think of this but too much reverb will make feedback in the higher registers worse. I'm not sure if you've mentioned it but what mics are you using. Some condenser mics can have a very hot signal and be difficult to work with.
Click to expand...

I do not have the effects on. I had a tad of reverb on for a bit and it did not make matters worse as far as feedback is concerned. Glad I got something right. LOL!

The mics are; lead vocalist = Sennheiser e838, 2nd vocalist and me (backup = EV Cobalt Co7's. I researched and all 3 are cardioid and have feedback rejection, so monitor placement will be easy. I need to make sure all 3 monitors are 180 from the mics. FWIW, all 3 mics are extremely clean sounding and balance well together.
 
#46
Downunderwonder said:
Some mics have their 2nd hottest response at 180deg. Check the polar response plots.
Click to expand...

For example, your e838 will work better w/ the singer's monitor @ 150 degrees:
61x%2BtQkz0aL._SX522_.jpg
 
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#48
Snowglo said:
Here's something I can't figure out; he has a pretty nice electronic kit and doesn't use it anymore!!! I loved it during rehearsals back in the days. I wasn't "the sound guy" and we have a supper cheap 8 channel powered mixer running even cheaper monitors (glad that muddy crap is gone), but we heard everybody!
Click to expand...

Man rehearsing that quietly is a thing of beauty, even with cheap monitors, like you say :) First chance I've had to say this on TB, but I think you should fire the drummer :cigar: and find one who'll use an electric kit :D
 
#49
I can't thank everyone enough! :thumbsup::hyper:

I took the advise given here with honorable mention going to @Bullitt5135 and turned our PA system around. Last night's rehearsal was great.

The only difficulty I had was with vocalist #2. Even with gain staging and high monitor output for his channel, his voice is just difficult to hear. I don't feel too bad because real sound dudes also have difficulty mixing him on house systems.

I learned that the individual channel Level control only controls the amount of effects to said channel. They do absolutely nothing for channel volume.

Best part of the night is when the drummer told us he is going to stach his acoustic set and bring out the electronic set!!! I about fainted. He finally sees the light :laugh:
 
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#51
I've read that the Sennheiser e835 is regarded as having hotter than average output" and "cuts through the mix better than an SM58". Is singer #2 right up on his mic? If he's a foot away (or more), that's probably your problem. Maybe he's a tentative, quiet singer? Have him get up on the mic and push some air. Is singer #2 serious about his singing? If so, a 1-hour lesson with a vocal coach would probably do him wonders if he wants to improve technique.

Also, try having another singer test the mic -- can you hear them better though the same mic and settings? Have singer #2 try another mic and see if it suits his voice better.

The manual for the e835 states that the most powerful & direct sound with minimal crosstalk from other sources is when you are zero inches from the mic. If you are more than 4" away, the result is less direct sound & bass boost, increased room abmience and crosstalk from other sources. I'm assuming that at 12", the singer will pretty much blend in with the stage noise.

See page 3:
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/6014/e835_Manual_08_2015_EN.pdf
 
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#52
Bullitt5135 said:
I've read that the Sennheiser e835 is regarded as having hotter than average output" and "cuts through the mix better than an SM58". Is singer #2 right up on his mic? If he's a foot away (or more), that's probably your problem. Maybe he's a tentative, quiet singer? Have him get up on the mic and push some air. Is singer #2 serious about his singing? If so, a 1-hour lesson with a vocal coach would probably do him wonders if he wants to improve technique.

Also, try having another singer test the mic -- can you hear them better though the same mic and settings? Have singer #2 try another mic and see if it suits his voice better.

The manual for the e835 states that the most powerful & direct sound with minimal crosstalk from other sources is when you are zero inches from the mic. If you are more than 4" away, the result is less direct sound & bass boost, increased room abmience and crosstalk from other sources. I'm assuming that at 12", the singer will pretty much blend in with the stage noise.

See page 3:
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/global-downloads/file/6014/e835_Manual_08_2015_EN.pdf
Click to expand...

It's all singer #2's voice/range. We have tried different mics and had the lead singer use #2's mic. No issue when the lead uses #2's mic (EV Co7). I also use the Co7 for the limited amount of back-up I do. They sound crystal clear when anyone but #2 uses them LOL! The Co7's sound so good we put our SM 58's back in a case to be used for an emergency. Night and day difference in output and clarity.

BLUF, #2 isn't a quite person, he just has a different voice (nasally) that is extremely hard to get volume from no matter the mic. He insists using a vocal effects pedal which sounds like poop IMHO. However, even without the effects pedal he is still spews in low volume. I agree, he needs to spend a few hours with a voice coach!

Yes, he is very aware to be as close to the mic as possible. Every time he mentions that he cannot hear himself, or someone else does, I point out that he is off the mic 6"-8". That is all on him! He stayed on the mic last night. This combined with me setting the gain structure properly and "ringing out" the monitors resulted the absolute best overall mix we have ever had.

Thanks again my TB brothers!
 
#53
Perhaps a different type of mic is required for singer #2,
like a headset, where the mic is at a fixed distance from the mouth,
or one of those strange throat transducer mic's.

Have you tried recording the gig/rehearsals?
When singer #2 listens to himself, things might change, as his own perception might not be what he hears after in the recording.
This worked for my drummers bellowing backing vocals in some parts.
 
#54
gumtown said:
Perhaps a different type of mic is required for singer #2,
like a headset, where the mic is at a fixed distance from the mouth,
or one of those strange throat transducer mic's.

Have you tried recording the gig/rehearsals?
When singer #2 listens to himself, things might change, as his own perception might not be what he hears after in the recording.
This worked for my drummers bellowing backing vocals in some parts.
Click to expand...

We record rehearsals often. He always says that he wishes he could hear his vocals better...LOL!
 

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