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HOTONE MP-100 Ampero
- Thread starter jimfist
- Start date
Sorry, I meant the individual effects on the MS3. No overall clean blend but the drives all have a clean blend parameter (even the ‘guitar’ ones like TS and Rat). The Hotone doesn’t appear to have that on any effects.
Strong accusation.
Do you have anything to concrete back up what you're inferring about this particular product and company? Or are you just talking off the top of your head about it?
Doesn’t sound like an accusation to me, it sounds like a question.
Chinese companies have been churning out copies of analogue gear for years. If they’re moving into the digital space then the problem is still there.
Developing high-quality modelling software isn’t a quick or cheap process. If the companies that do this (Fractal, Line 6, Kemper, Positive Grid, Studio Devil et al) are having their work repackaged and sold in products that undercut them, that may result in a chilling effect on development. And that’s bad for all of us.
Of course if this has been independently developed then there is nothing to be concerned about.
Either way, it looks like it may well tick a few boxes for me but I won’t be getting one.
If you’re interested in it, crack on.
Oh I see. It’s like my down the street neighbor. She’s the master of making outrageous and unsupportable inferences and allusions. And, whenever she’s called on it, she smiles and says, in her sing-songy tone: “I’m just asking a question...”
If somebody is using “stolen firmware” in their product, it’s fairly easy to establish. There’s all sorts of telltales you can incorporate into your code. And there’s ways to obscure or encrypt any proprietary algorithms or unpatentable (because they’re neither original or unique) code elements being used. So if some code gets stolen it’s not like it’s hard to spot.
“Stolen code” and “copied firmware” is an accusation being tossed around far too loosely these days.
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Big question....who's got, or getting one and how does it sound with a bass?
Agreed.
Here's my broad take on all of the latest crop of multi-effect modeler pedals: ALL OF THEM can be adjusted to get some damn good sounds - even the ones that don't feature bass specific amps/cabs/effects (such as the Zoom G5n and Atomic Amplifire). The big differences between the pedals has to do with user preference for workflow, specificity of available amp/cab/effect models, deep parameter editing, specific I/O configurations, physical switches/knobs/pedals, etc.
It's all wants and needs, so if you don't NEED to have certain features that come with more expensive modeling pedals, then there's not a whole lot of benefit to going there UNLESS you find that the sound quality in an expensive modelers is head-and-shoulders better than the lower priced ones (and that is your prime want/need).
I'm sure the Ampero is no different. Those who are generally skilled at fine-tuning modelers should be able to get the Ampero to sound just fine. To what quality level? That is purely subjective. If the usage is live performance, then the microscope is less fine than if you were doing high-end studio work.
Speaking personally regarding the Ampero, one of the first things I look for is live performance work flow, IOW switching and adjustment. I PREFER 4 switches always available for stomp boxes, an expression pedal, a tuner switch and a hardware volume control knob. I hate tap-dancing to switch sounds and menu diving to make initial sound check adjustments. The jury is out for me whether the Ampero would meet these needs. Otherwise, it seems like a decent piece of gear for the money, with lots of great features.
It’s definitely something I’d want to try out before I’d ever consider buying one. Most multi effects I tried sound really cool at first. But most I’ve had access to rapidly lose their luster for me after a closer and more prolonged listening once I get them home. And considering what I’ve got around me for music stores (who won’t even let you unbox let alone try out an effect pedal) it’s highly unlikely I’ll ever be getting one.
I know that MOOER was bagged red handed in a software copyright infringement case, stealing from EHX. The speculation about Hotone comes from "internet talk" that Mooer and Hotone are closely related family companies, discrete though they may be. Even if so, until Hotone is caught with their hand in the cookie jar, it is still pure speculation that they're guilty of anything. Software infringement is always worth keeping an eye on, but always innocent until proven guilty, no matter what the circumstantial evidence looks like. This type of infringement seems to be pretty straightforward to prove.
A lot of online stores have a tryout grace period and return policy. What is your situation for using modelers? Gigging? Home use only? Serious recording or home recording?
I’ve been involved in IT and software development for over 35 years. And you are correct. It is fairly easy to spot and prove - when and if it actually occurs.
Be nice if American businesses could just admit the main thing that’s putting us at a global disadvantage as far as innovation goes is the fact we’ve dropped the ball. And we’ve become resentful that someone else picked it up and stepped into the gap we ourselves created.
Something I find sadly amusing is how so many people just assume innovation on the digital front is still the exclusive domain of American companies long after we’ve lost our exclusive lead and are now rapidly losing what edge we have left in so many technical and scientific areas. You can thank our companies and their management for that.
Just like the auto industry, and how Japan seized the opportunity and eventually easily outperformed and out-innovated the big US auto companies. Unfortunately, this tends to lead to politics, which is the third rail here on TB. So I'll leave it at that.
I, for one, have never been one to turn a blind eye to non-US innovation of any kind, and will support those products with a purchase if I have the need. At the same time, I'm happy to reward native US companies when they do come up with quality innovations. As for the topic of modelers, Atomic Audio and Fractal Audio are doing excellent work on this front. I own or have owned their products and strongly advocate for them b/c I think they are quality, innovative products. Not necessarily cheap, though. At the same time, no secret here how much I enjoy the bang-for-buck vs. cost aspects of Zoom products, too.
Been reflecting on this 'intellectual property theft / poor corporate behaviour' and I’m not really seeing too many 'pure angels’ in the commercial world out there!
Mooer were held bang to rights. The case revolved around Mooer’s Mooergan and Tender Octaver pedals, which included exact copies of the software used in EHX’s C9 and Micro POG. After almost two years of fighting the Chinese courts have awarded Electro-Harmonix a nearly six-figure judgement i.e. $500k if we take the middle of that range.
I suspect that Mooer have learned their lesson – they know they will be very much on other folks’ radar. There was actually a lot of love for the Tender Octaver from bass players and considered by many to be a more attractive product than the EHX POG. I'm actually pretty excited about their new GE300 multifx offering.
But do any of us have anything made by Samsung? Samsung were ordered to pay Apple $539 MILLION after losing a US patent lawsuit.
Then what about Apple and Qualcomm? Apple will pay Qualcomm an undisclosed sum as part of the settlement, which includes a six-year licensing agreement between the two.
Apple tried suing Microsoft about Windows imitating their GUI (but lost). Fender tried to copyright the design of its iconic guitars (and also lost). They both clearly thought they had a case. Do we avoid Sandberg, Sadowsky, Lakland etc etc because they have pretty much filched Fendberg's iconic bass design?
Oh yes and the EU have just successfully sued Apple for tax avoidance (in collusion with the Irish government) and Apple have paid back $15.3 BILLION in back taxes. Ok time to avoid all Apple products, too, now then?
All household names. All products we love. Do we avoid the lot? If Mooer were $500k bad then, Samsung and Apple, by that score, are literally 1,000 and 30,000 times worse respectively.
Mooer were held bang to rights. The case revolved around Mooer’s Mooergan and Tender Octaver pedals, which included exact copies of the software used in EHX’s C9 and Micro POG. After almost two years of fighting the Chinese courts have awarded Electro-Harmonix a nearly six-figure judgement i.e. $500k if we take the middle of that range.
I suspect that Mooer have learned their lesson – they know they will be very much on other folks’ radar. There was actually a lot of love for the Tender Octaver from bass players and considered by many to be a more attractive product than the EHX POG. I'm actually pretty excited about their new GE300 multifx offering.
But do any of us have anything made by Samsung? Samsung were ordered to pay Apple $539 MILLION after losing a US patent lawsuit.
Then what about Apple and Qualcomm? Apple will pay Qualcomm an undisclosed sum as part of the settlement, which includes a six-year licensing agreement between the two.
Apple tried suing Microsoft about Windows imitating their GUI (but lost). Fender tried to copyright the design of its iconic guitars (and also lost). They both clearly thought they had a case. Do we avoid Sandberg, Sadowsky, Lakland etc etc because they have pretty much filched Fendberg's iconic bass design?
Oh yes and the EU have just successfully sued Apple for tax avoidance (in collusion with the Irish government) and Apple have paid back $15.3 BILLION in back taxes. Ok time to avoid all Apple products, too, now then?
All household names. All products we love. Do we avoid the lot? If Mooer were $500k bad then, Samsung and Apple, by that score, are literally 1,000 and 30,000 times worse respectively.
Yes indeed. I know about those online grace return windows. I’ve done business with Sweetwater mainly and they’re very good about it. But I’m not comfortable returning stuff just because I’ve changed my mind. I know it’s old fashioned and out of touch. But unless something arrives damaged, or it was misrepresented in the sales literature or webpage, I invariably keep it and take responsibility for flipping it myself. No judgement on what anybody else does. It’s just the way I roll with this stuff. “But dumb” on my part probably. But that’s me. I be but dumb sometimes.
Uses? Recording primarily. Home but moderately serious. I’m not an effects user when I’m gigging most times.
So far I’ve tried (courtesy of friends) the Helix (very impressive), SUHR PT-15 (basically a Helix), the Two Notes Torpedo CAB, and any IR effects box I could get my hands on. I also recently bought a Mooer Radar off the classifieds here, which is inexpensive and surprisingly good sounding although I doubt I’m going to end up keeping it unless my SO decides she wants it for her assemblage of magic boxes.
Of the above, the Helix was a definite winner in terms of quality and bang for the buck, provided you want everything it has - which is pretty much everything. Overkill for me. But a pretty impressive box of chips either way.
At home I have a half dozen amps to work with as well as two full pedal collections. So I don't actually need a modeler. If I were gigging out a lot (which I’m not and probably won’t be doing significantly more of near term), or if I were just starting out getting my rig together, I’d be all over something like the Helix or similar. But when you’ve got a ridiculous amount of good gear already (45 years of gathering stuff adds up), and you don’t have to lug it around much, “all-in-one I can do everything” boxes don’t rank high on my “to buy” list. My interests are more in keeping educated about the current state of art.
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I'm the same way. If I don't like something, I tend to keep it. I figure it's not sweetwater's fault that it didn't work for me. I did return the bass fly rig when it first came out, but that was so unusable that even sweetwater techs figured mine was defective. True story.
If I get a malfunctioning dog of an item, I'll return it. Most times, though, I'll eat an acquisition-gone-bad and flip the gear myself. I have returned gear that is working as expected, simply because it was so far off from my expectations (based on research) that I couldn't justify keeping it to flip.
I generally don't hang onto gear that I don't use for long periods of time, excepting a handful of basses and various pieces of gear. I've owned and sold two Fractal Audio pieces, a Roland RE501 space echo, a couple of Distressors and Neve modules, Hammond organs, a full SVT rig, and countless other pieces of lesser gear, in order to put them somewhere they'll be put to good, regular use. Sometimes I miss them, but ultimately don't regret any of the sales.
I'm definitely a gear tech-head at heart, though. I don't have the time (or money) I used to have now that I'm married, but I love to keep up on the technology even if I don't plan on purchasing. These are good times - and getting better - for cramming loads of great sounds into smaller and smaller boxes.
The thing that doesn't change, though, is that you still need the musician and the instrument resonating with other musicians and audiences in order for any of this to be worthwhile on a live performance level, which is what I do 99% of the time. So, in the end, the gear doesn't change my sense of pitch, time, feel, and musical interaction with other players, except that the instrument needs to be heard/amplified. Beyond that, the vast majority of what happens comes down to my mind, 2 hands, 10 fingers, and four strings.
I generally don't hang onto gear that I don't use for long periods of time, excepting a handful of basses and various pieces of gear. I've owned and sold two Fractal Audio pieces, a Roland RE501 space echo, a couple of Distressors and Neve modules, Hammond organs, a full SVT rig, and countless other pieces of lesser gear, in order to put them somewhere they'll be put to good, regular use. Sometimes I miss them, but ultimately don't regret any of the sales.
I'm definitely a gear tech-head at heart, though. I don't have the time (or money) I used to have now that I'm married, but I love to keep up on the technology even if I don't plan on purchasing. These are good times - and getting better - for cramming loads of great sounds into smaller and smaller boxes.
The thing that doesn't change, though, is that you still need the musician and the instrument resonating with other musicians and audiences in order for any of this to be worthwhile on a live performance level, which is what I do 99% of the time. So, in the end, the gear doesn't change my sense of pitch, time, feel, and musical interaction with other players, except that the instrument needs to be heard/amplified. Beyond that, the vast majority of what happens comes down to my mind, 2 hands, 10 fingers, and four strings.
I've had it for a while now. Used it live on several occasions. The best tool I've ever had. The menu is simple and straightforward.
The sound is very good. If you cannot find your sound on it then you will never find it.
I have used it live both with acoustic guitar, electric guitar and with bass.
But now I long for my stompboxes. There is something about multi-effects. Menu adjusting this and that. Live I feel like loosing control.
I will keep it because it is super great for home practice. But I must admit that my mxr ehx and boss pedals still rules. Maybe I’m old.
The sound is very good. If you cannot find your sound on it then you will never find it.
I have used it live both with acoustic guitar, electric guitar and with bass.
But now I long for my stompboxes. There is something about multi-effects. Menu adjusting this and that. Live I feel like loosing control.
I will keep it because it is super great for home practice. But I must admit that my mxr ehx and boss pedals still rules. Maybe I’m old.
I just ordered one and will review here when I get it.
I’ve been trying different multi effects lately but don’t want to spend over 500. I’m hoping this will be a fair compromise on features vs value.
I’ve never liked single stomp boxes, prefer being able to save and recall several settings on each effect. I’m not picky about modeling either, as long as it sounds decent I don’t really care if it actually sounds like the original. I just want a single compact unit I can take anywhere and use on any rig.
I’ve been trying different multi effects lately but don’t want to spend over 500. I’m hoping this will be a fair compromise on features vs value.
I’ve never liked single stomp boxes, prefer being able to save and recall several settings on each effect. I’m not picky about modeling either, as long as it sounds decent I don’t really care if it actually sounds like the original. I just want a single compact unit I can take anywhere and use on any rig.
Look forward to a review and maybe some clips? Things have been pretty quiet for awhile now regarding the Ampero...
Best wishes,
Brent
