‘Before you do anything. Make sure you do some serious EQ knob twisting on your amp and record and review this process. While you are at it, keep in mind certain cabs can color your sound as well.
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How Can I Upgrade My Ibanez?
- Thread starter MycooLeeyun
- Start date
‘Before you do anything. Make sure you do some serious EQ knob twisting on your amp and record and review this process. While you are at it, keep in mind certain cabs can color your sound as well.
Since my Ibanez is routed reverse P does this set still work? Sorry if this is a dumb question!I think a new set of EMG's with Alnico magnets and a BTC Bass/Treble module would be a great sounding fit with that SR1200 Ibby you have and that is a very, very nice SR1200. Older Ibby Soundgears and EMG pickups just go together IMO.
I have a EMG Alnico P with the Bass/Treble seperate module in my Warwick AC Rockbass and I am very happy with the sound. I get the full spectrum of lows, mids & highs.
This set:
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Thanks so much for the rec on EMG's I feel pretty good about going this route.
That is the nature of generalizations isn’t it.. they’re true until they aren’t
Since I’m not putting any money on it, I’d say it’s likely that the generalizations about ceramic pickups are largely based on cheap pickups and/or stock pickups on cheap instruments.
I brought this up elsewhere recently, but it’s not exactly obvious what is being said when we are told the frequency for the bass and treble control. Shelf eq’s generally slope endlessly towards the edges of the range (0hz and ~20khz, let’s say). While there can be a bit of a high pass and/or low pass, it doesn’t necessarily or often seem to correlate with the stated frequency occurring as a peak between the shelf and the low/high rolloff.
I’m not home with my computer/files, but a convenient example is the Nordstrand preamp, for which they provide a frequency response graph.
So the advertised frequencies are +/-12dB at 50hz and 4khz…
Now that looks about right on the graph… but it doesn’t mean much does it?! We could call it 13dB at 40hz instead, or 13.5 at 30, or whatever at 60hz etc etc. When you don’t have a peaking EQ for treble or bass, it’s just not really clear to me what information it being conveyed by these specs.
interestingly, Bartolini spec’s theirs at 30hz, which would reasonably be about the highest peak before the rolloff of the High pass from things like coupling capacitors, and 30 being pretty much on the cusp of sonic/subsonically low.
But the Nordstrand? Certainly they don’t have a high pass as high as 50 hz, even if we assume the graph is simplified and ideal, not showing the rolloff at the range extremes..
It makes it very hard to get meaningful information from specs for any manufacturers who don’t post graphs.
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A reverse P doesn't need a special pickup. Any P pickup can be reversed with no ill effects. Many will argue that a reverse P is actually a better format for a P pickup anyway and I'm not sure they're wrong.
You asked earlier in the thread about EMG vs. Nordstrand, which is a little hard to answer because both companies offer a wide range of products, but just about all companies have a general tonal ideal that they are known for and then some of them offer products that step outside of that ideal to please other customers.
EMG - and I'm talking about the classic EMG sound that they became known for in the 1980s - is known for very even, full-range sound. Their pickups don't tend to favor any particular frequency range. They were among the first companies to offer "hi-fi" sound in a bass pickup. At the time, many bassists felt that sound was too sterile sounding (myself included) but a lot of the problem was just the other equipment in the signal chain during that era. '80s-era EMG pickups sound great through modern gear. They also make VERY well-balanced P/J sets.
Nowadays they offer a lot of other tonal flavors (as well as versatile preamps that can change the character of their pickups) but their signature sound is even and full-range. Other companies that strive for a similar tonal goal are Delano (maybe even a little more modern sounding than EMG) and MEC.
Nordstrand tends to favor vintage sounds that feature a little more clarity and a little more bass. Another poster's description of "modern vintage" is a pretty good description, I think. Aguilar falls into this category as well, with maybe a little more grit. Their preamps sit in the same sort of sonic territory.
Bartolini is a favorite of mine; very clear lows, a push in the low midrange and very smooth but clear upper mids and treble. This is the tonal signature they're famous for and it's represented by their 'Original' line of pickups. Most people consider it to be a warm sound. Their 'Classic' line has more upper mids and treble but is otherwise similar. Their preamps are very neutral and versatile and work well with any pickups.
Lindy Fralin sticks to very vintage designs and tones and he does it very, very well.
Wilde was only mentioned a couple of times so far but they're worth looking into. Bill Lawrence designed the P-46 and J-45 pickups to be very even in response - passive pickups that are going for a similar tonal profile as EMG but with a little bit of vintagey stuff thrown in. Bill is deceased and the pickups are now wound by his widow, and at a very reasonable price. The P/J set is better balanced than most. It's an excellent, versatile pickup set.
DiMarzio is best known for their high-gain pickups from the 1970s and '80s that were hugely popular among hard rock players. They do a ton more now, offering a very diverse product line. Seymore Duncan also offers a huge array of products.
As far as preamps go, there are so many and many, to be completely honest, are very comparable. Any good quality unit with fixed frequencies from any of the big names; Bartolini, Nordstrand, Noll, Delano, John East, Audere, MEC, EMG, etc... are going to be just that: good quality units with fixed frequencies that sound good and are reliable. Pick the frequencies you like and off you go. Nobody's going to know who's preamp you have in there but you. Preamps with sweepable frequencies can be very handy (and a little harder to shop for) but, in the end, it's a tone control like any other and you just need to select the features that appeal to you - all the big names are going to perform well. That's why they got big.
Enough blabbing from me... good luck in your search.
The Nordstrand preamp is good, and really pretty inexpensive. To me it’s a basic preamp, and I don’t mean that derisively in the least.
As far as the tone you’re after, I’d honestly just go on YouTube and just search Bartolini pickups.. you’ll get their average sound from watching a few videos. They have “a sound” but they’re still pretty versatile. You’ll know pretty quickly if you love or hate the sound, and you can go from there.
another thing I meant to mention is that you’ll want to make sure the pickups are pretty standard size. The P pickup almost certainly is standard, but jazzes come in a bit of a variety, even on 4 strings.
Thank you for clearing this up, great info! I wasn't aware of this issue. I remember that when trying to boost or cut either 30 or 40hz I wasn't hearing much difference, at least compared to boosting or cutting at 100hz. That explains it.
Wow... this is super helpful.
Based on your descriptions I'm leaning toward EMG or Wilde. I like the sound of Wilde because it's got at least a little bit of that vintagey vibe thrown in there.
How do I pick passive vs active pickups? Does it matter either way? Do some preamps only work with passive pickups etc.?
I'm just trying to understand this better before I pull the trigger.
I'm leaning toward EMG, but one thing I don't like is their preamps only work with EMG pickups. But I do want to hear what Wilde is offering as well.
I think the EMG pickups are active and I'm just wondering what that does to the overall sound.
in the context of boosting frequencies in a DAW or a graphic or parametric EQ, 30 and 40 will be very similar just because it’s a boost in just about the lowest range, and the slope surrounding it won’t be much different. I’m curious about the preamps that say something more like 70-100hz; some may be peaking so it makes sense, but if it’s a shelf, then I just don’t get what the spec is saying.
I am designing a preamp for a build, and did a LOT of research in existing preamps, and this little marketing quirk made it kind of maddening to figure out what’s actually going on.. luckily I’m past that, and also luckily I have settled on preferring the sound of a peaked low and high end
I’m pretty sure that EMG preamps can be used with other pickups but there are folks here who are far more expert about their pre’s than I am.
The thing about active pickups is that they have a buffer built into them which causes their output impedance to be much lower than that of passive pickups. That, in turn, means you lose less highs in your (passive) tone circuits and volume circuits and cables and THAT means you end up with a more “hi-fi”, full-range sort of sound. EMG active pickups were originally designed to be used with passive volume and tone controls. They didn’t start making preamps until years later.
Most preamps will work with either active or passive pickups. Some companies (MEC, for instance) sell two versions of the same pre; one for passive pickups and one for active.
Something to consider is that active pickups need batteries and a single battery may not be enough to power both a pair of pickups and a preamp. In most cases, though, I think you’ll be fine.
It doesn’t matter whether you choose active or passive pickups. It just comes down to whether you like how they sound. Some folks will argue that you’ll be screwed if you have active pickups and your battery dies. That’s true, I suppose, but if you change batteries twice a year it will never be an issue.
Going with passive pickups and a bypassable preamp is sort of a best-of-both-worlds scenario for some people because they can choose between active and passive tones and they have a parachute if their battery dies but the truth is most people find a sound that they like and never switch back and forth between the two so it may not really be as useful as it seems and it adds complication.
I’m not sure if all this information is making it easier or harder for you! It’s a lot to take in and there are an awful lot of options.
This is making it very much easier for me!
I really appreciate your in depth answers and knowledge on this subject.
I'm glad to know that I'm not limited to either passive or active pickups. But I understand that a more hi-fi tone will come from the active pickups.
Now, I just need to identify which pickups I'm going to get. For some reason, if I decide to get EMG pickups it just feels right to get their preamp as well.
If I decide to go with Wilde pickups, then I'll have to think about what pre will pair well with those.
Where do "tone" knobs come into play? I love using the tone knob on my passive basses, but do those not exist on basses with active preamps and/or pickups?
- Apr 18, 2008
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I have paired EMG pickups with plenty of other manufacturers’ passive pickups. Works fine. The main issue is the resistance value of the volume pot - passive pickups into passive volume into preamp (use 250kOhm or 500kOhm pots), or passive pickups into preamp into volume pot (use 25kOhm pot).
No, you’ve got this!
Remember what I said about impedance? Active pickups have low impedance output. So do all preamps. Passive pickups have high impedance output.
If any of your controls (volume or tone) come after a high impedance source, meaning passive pickups, use the traditional 250k or 500k pot values. If they come after a low impedance source, meaning active p’ups or a preamp, use lower pot values like 50k, 25k or even 10k.
You can add a passive tone control anywhere in the circuit, either before or after a preamp as long as you choose pot (and cap) values that work with the source. If you add one after the preamp it will be a low value pot with a larger cap (25k and .1uF, for example). If it’s between active pickups and a preamp it would be the same. If it’s between passive p’ups and a preamp you would use traditional values such as 250k and.02uF or .047uF.
Starting to make sense?
I'm of the impression you'd like a "plug 'n play" upgrade...same here. If you haven't yet posted this in the Soundgear Club thread, I recommend you do so. You may benefit from the triumphs and downfalls of others who've handled like-instruments.
Riis
Pickup height can make a big difference. My Gibson EB bass (the weird-looking 2014 model) has two big humbuckers that sound great, and the bass is terrific overall, but I eventually noticed a problem with it. Specifically, the E string, played at the 12th fret, made a warbling sound resembling two notes a fret apart being plucked at the same time.
So I checked the setup, checked to make sure the string wasn't damaged or unraveling, etc. No obvious problems.
Finally, I tried reducing the neck pickup height. The starting height was close to 3/8" above the pickguard. I kept dropping the pickup lower and lower. The warble was finally gone with the pickup practically flush with the pickguard. The pickup is only barely quieter than it was at its full height.
It sounds as if you're determined to swap out your pickup and won't be happy until you do, but you can at least try adjusting the pickup height to see what effect it has on the tone. Maybe record before-and-after samples, because memory is notoriously unreliable as a guide for sound comparisons. You might want to do the same with the old pickup/new pickup.
Before you change the pickups, how do you install the strings? If I take a closer look at the bridge it looks to me that there's no "witness point" where the strings runs over the saddle. If you don't create this witness point the strings will sound boomy and lack snappyness. This is especially true for the E, A and D strings.
