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How close am I to being kicked out?

SweetKetchup

SweetKetchup

Guest
Nov 29, 2015
65
31
29
Romania
#1
I've finally decided to stop with covers and try creating my own stuff so I joined a new band (we're all new to composing) and now we're mostly improvising over a given chord progression and trying to find our common denominator in terms of genre.

The problem is I am mainly playing roots or arpeggios. I am locking in with the drums, I don't lose tempo, I play chord tones - all is good. Except I can't come up with anything close to an actual bass line, especially when the lead guitarist starts soloing over different modes, where I'm hopeless and just stick to the roots safe zone.

So how long should it take to get the "we need someone who can actually create something"?
 
#3
Really depends on the style of music! Root notes and chord tones are a great start though and can get you very far.

If you all are playing in a common style, that will likely dictate your bass line creation. How long before you should do that is hard to say...but i'd say it is preferably at the time that the chord progression is set upon.
 
#4
There is a common rule of business that if you think that you are going to get fired, you probably are. It is probably the same thing with bands - expect the hammer to fall, based on what you have said.

THAT being said - I joined a songwriter's band last year - every song was original and I was a bit worried about creating the bass lines. He created scratch recordings for me so that I could learn the songs. I played them over and over again, creating and humming bass lines to go with them, and now all is fine. It is a lot easier to do it that way than to try to make them up on the spot.
 
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#7
SweetKetchup said:
I've finally decided to stop with covers and try creating my own stuff so I joined a new band (we're all new to composing) and now we're mostly improvising over a given chord progression and trying to find our common denominator in terms of genre.

The problem is I am mainly playing roots or arpeggios. I am locking in with the drums, I don't lose tempo, I play chord tones - all is good. Except I can't come up with anything close to an actual bass line, especially when the lead guitarist starts soloing over different modes, where I'm hopeless and just stick to the roots safe zone.

So how long should it take to get the "we need someone who can actually create something"?
Click to expand...

Until someone comes up with changes, a bridge, and a melody, you're probably fine. Till then, you just jamming.
But then again, what do I know?
 
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#9
Why not ask the guys for a little feedback. If the guitar players are on the busy side, they might appreciate you playing it pretty straight. If YOU feel like you should be doing more, take advantage of the days between band practices to work up some more creative lines. By now you're probably getting familiar with the other guys' tendencies and the chord progressions that you commonly jam. Whether you are on any hot seat or not, the goal is constant improvement and bringing more than you did in the last session.
 
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#10
The key here may be communicating w your mates in search of understanding of expectation for the genre/style of music.

Chord tones are certainly the right place to start.

Try making a rough chart of your jams and documenting what colorations/chords each player is playing. Only then can you begin to lock in consistent parts and move from jam to composition.

Enjoy the process of discovery and express any insecurities/concerns as you go. It's the bassists job to suppport the music and fellow players.

Showing that you are self-aware and solicitous will go a long way towards making great music and band dynamics.
 
#12
How close are you to being kicked out?
A hair's breadth away....
Just kidding. The fact you are concerned and wanting to improve is awesome.
Best to go the minimal route and build from there as opposed to throwing everything you got at every single song.
Which is what I did with the last, all originals band I auditioned for. Didn't get the gig.
What they wanted was simple melodic notes tastefully placed in tempo to support the song.
 
#13
All depends what the band wants. Michael Anthony made a career from playing roots with VH, and would have gotten the axe if he olayed what he is capable of playing.

If you want to work on the basslines, take a recording home and experiment:

- root
- fifth
- runs between the two

Will get you a long way. You also can listen to what the guitar is doing and try to follow.

Remember, practice at home so you are more prepared at rehearsal.
 
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#15
Let me second what a few have said. I've been playing professionally for 45 years, give or take. The vast majority of the bands, backline gigs, studio work, benefit shows, etc. has been original music. (You've likely heard some of it.) I've done very few covers in my life.

I have always found that, for me, the best way to develop my part is to get to "own" the song. For me, this requires hard work on my own - away from everyone else. My goal is always using the bass to help create the best possible song from what we are working with.

That might turn into developing a line that moves the song, a line that compliments the song, a line that incorporates some syncopated pieces, some doubling of the lead guitar, or, simply, holding down the bottom.

For me, it changes from song to song. Even if the band is developing a direction/identity, for me, that doesn't mean that I think every song benefits from the same approach.

FYI, I love a band situation, so I like bringing in a part to the band and asking for feedback and also proposing changes to the song and to what others are playing based on what I might have developed. I've been fortunate to be in/put myself in situations that work for me. I do my best to present new ideas to others in a positive way - "do you think it would work if you tried X while I do Y" instead of "I think it would be better if you did X while I do Y" - to which the response might understandably be FU.

I'm sure there are many who can think quicker on their feet than i can and hear parts as they are presented with a song or start jamming on a song. I can't do that in terms of being satisfied that the bass is being used to maximize the potential of theach song within the context of the strengths and directions of the band/artist/project.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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#16
bassbully said:
Heck my last two originals bands would of loved you. If I ever tried to get off the roots path I was overplaying. Stick to what you are doing maybe less is more?
Click to expand...
+1

Most "soloing" guitarists I have played with couldn't care less what you play as long as you don't stomp all over their solo (keep it simple and not too loud), it's all about their solo.

If yours is listening to what you are playing keep hold of him, he is a rare commodity indeed.
 
#17
i wouldn't want to join a group of players who are new to composing if i wanted to learn to compose. you have an entire group without a frame of reference. have you established a genre you want to play and write for, and is it the same genre for all of you?

i agree with DinoRock that working away from the others is helpful. record your band sessions, then work on the songs away from the rest.

btw, starting with a particular chord progression may lock you and your band into a particular type of music at the gate, and jamming may or may not be the best way to write songs. in the bands and projects i've been a part of, one person tended to bring in a tune, then we worked on it. or several times, we'd have a little riff someone would noodle between songs at rehearsal that would get fleshed out to make a song. once i had a couple riffs that i came up with that i liked, but they weren't enough to make up an entire song. i brought it to a buddy of mine (we were an acoustic duet at the time), and he stretched it out, we wrote the lyrics together and it became an entire song.

imo, having anyone soloing before the building blocks of a song is built pretty much kills any more actual composing.
 
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#18
I would skip the 'soloing' part for the end. Keep a general structure of the song divided in parts. Once that's done, think about how to keep different parts of the songs interested with little arrangements.
If you're an amateur, the first couple of original songs would be basic stuffs (you will realize that once you listen the recordings several years after), but it will pay off in the end.
 
#19
If you have two guitar players that are writing and soloing then what you're currently doing seems perfect. But, it does depend on what the group is trying to achieve.

I'm a crap bass player in a band with two great guitar players that both write stuff, and both solo. All I do is play root notes, maybe some 5ths, very limited arpeggios off the root, occasional slides, a tad of major/minor 3rd alterations; just supporting their music and filling out the space, trying to get a feel for the song and work with the tempo/rhythm. When I first hear their new song, I start just with the basic root notes on a couple of beats in the bar then add notes and rhythm bit by bit; always trying to stop before it all gets too crowded - they are both happy with this. Chat to the other members of the group and ask them what they expect from you because if all three of you are busy, and the drummer too, then the music could become overwhelming and loose musicality. Again, it depends on what you are all trying to achieve.
 
#20
You probably have more leeway than you think. As stated above... if you are all new to composing, then keeping it simple isn't the worst thing in the world. I would maybe start asking for feedback once you are starting to arrange your material together. I consider myself to be a creative player, but most of my best bass compositions started out as a bunch of "doot doot doot" on the root at first. Like you, I always wonder if the other players are hearing it with regret.
 

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