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How Come More People Aren't Using 210 tiltbacks?

#21
KJung said:
IMO, the problem with most tilt back designs is, given that midrange and treble response is directional and bass is not, these are really only useful for near field personal monitoring, and result in a bit of boomy mush reaching both the audience and other band members on stage.

So, the only time they would be useful (IMO) is in a situation where you had both front of house support, and a good enough monitoring system so the rest of the band can hear the full range of your instrument across a large stage. Of course, if the monitoring system is that good and you have your own mix, then you wouldn't really need a backline rig.

IMO and IME with these designs. I find that for small cabs, like a 112 or 210, attaching a spring loaded metal handle to the front of the bottom of the cab provides just enough tilt to hear a bit more midrange and definition from your cab if you are forced to stand right on top of it, but to not direct the upper range of your tone directly up to the ceiling!
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So if you use something like this ampwedge under a large-ish cab your audience will not hear full range bass?


wedgeiso.jpg


topimage.jpg
 
#22
::::BASSIST:::: said:
So if you use something like this ampwedge under a large-ish cab your audience will not hear full range bass?


wedgeiso.jpg
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That seems to be more similar to the spring loaded handle tilt amount. Since that thing is about twice the size of my amp head, I wouldnt' really consider carrying that around versus the spring loaded handle.

Per your question... if you are on a three foot high stage, you might have a problem. If you are on the floor, probably no problem!
 
#23
I'm not sure that the spring-loaded handle would give the same tilt though.

Allows infinitely variable angle adjustment to 20 degrees.
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Molded of resilient, high-density integral skin urethane.
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Minimizes unwanted floor vibrations and improves sound.
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Integrally molded grip.
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Supports up to 150 lbs.
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Weight: 2lbs
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Dimensions: 12”x8”x3”
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#25
I had one. My experience with it was that it was uncoupled some where below E, as in "five strings need not apply." You could see the drivers going like mad but you couldn't hear a thing starting somewhere around low D and below. I sold it and was glad I did.

I still love the idea. Especially for guitarists. I've got a couple of cast frame Eden woofers and I think I'm going to build a wedge cab around one of them.

KO

bassistkll said:
Carvin used to make a tilt-back 210 cab. No idea why they discontinued them. I'm fortunate to have two of them.
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#27
I use a Markbass CMD102P that can be tilted back. I played a loud gig last Thursday and should really have taken an extension cab, but I was feeling lazy and knew I'd be able to hear myself okay with the combo tilted back. I also know I would have really struggled to hear myself with a 210 blasting horizontally somewhere about 18" behind my knees. The tilt option is one of the best features of a piece of gear that I consider to be pretty much the perfect 210 combo. I've said it so many times, but please forgive me saying it again; this combo is one of the very best pieces of gear that I have ever used or purchased.

Before I had it I was using a head (standing to one side) plus a 210 cab on an angled stand for smaller gigs, so I appreciated the tilting idea back then. But the MB combo is just more satisfactory in every way - miles easier and miles better.

Er... I think I just answered the question. Sort of.

Btw, tilting back your amp will not reduce the amount of bass getting out front or send your lows over the heads of your audience. Low frequencies spread out from the source plenty and are not directional to the extent that mids and highs are.
 
#29
A few years back, I bought the Ampeg BXT210M, which looks just like a wedge monitor. But I would have to agree with whoever it was that said, " I like it it better when it's actually at ear level". That was the case with mine, just didn't "put out". It's also the fact that a 210 cab, even a really good one, is just not enough speaker.
 
#32
400RB-III 210 here and it sounds wonderful.

If you're playing a 210 combo in a place that isn't relative close quarters you have the wrong sized cab IMHO.

The 210 is perfect for storefront churches because the walls help to keep the bass in tact.


Know your surroundings and know your cab and you will be in a OK shape.
 
#34
::::BASSIST:::: said:
So Bill have you listened to your combo from out in the audience? Does it sound full range?

I'm talking about small to medium venues with no PA support.
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I have listened out front during setup time when I've been wireless and it seems to pump out plenty. That said, by the time we get to the actual soundcheck and gig proper, I nearly always have PA support. The comments about audibility were more from my point of view on stage. I can hear myself just fine next to a loud drummer (and so do the rest of the band). What gets out front is pretty much down to the soundguy.

But I will add that sometimes the combo has to work hard to get that happening. With an extension cab, the extra cone area and the increased headroom running 500W into 4 ohms instead of 300W into 8 ohms makes things a little more effortless. That means I'm running about 11 o'clock on the master volume then rather than 2-30, if you get what I'm saying. I don't tilt the combo on top of the extension cab, either - I tried it once and nearly blew my head off with the thing pointed right at my ears from about two feet away! :D

The comment I made about the out front sound was just to point out that if you are going to fire anything over the heads of your audience by tilting back, it will be the highs rather than the lows. I hope that clears things up?
 
#35
LOVE my GK 1001/210! Great for small stages! Sometimes put it on it's side.
If I need a more sound, send 540w out to an extension cab!
I use an old Marshall 4x12, a Plush 2x15 or a Sunn 12+18.
 
#37
DWBass said:
I prefer my amp heads on top of my cabs so the tilt thing, while great idea, doesn't work for me. I know, some of y'all place the amp next to or near on the ground or somewhere else but I like a small footprint onstage.
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That's why the combo works so well. I understand a lot of folks still prefer the separate head and cab thing for flexibility reasons, though.

Lync said:
A tilt-back cab/combo is an excellent way to keep your stage volume low and hear yourself if you have PA support.
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Exactly. Although I might use the phrase "appropriate for the on stage mix" rather than "low". There's no way I could use the word "low" to describe the volume on stage at our last gig. The drummer we had with us on that night saw to that (he grooves like a demon, though). I really must get some ear plugs.
 
#39
I can't fully agree with this. It really depends on the room. Many times the cab sounds the same kicked back or straight once you are in the audience.

Plus, normally when you have no PA, the room is pretty small and this isn't an issue. For PA support, the audience shouldn't hear your rig anyway.




::::BASSIST:::: said:
Yup. I guess the consensus is the audience will hear more boom than mid/treble with the wedge style cabs.
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