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how DID the velvet underground get that sound?

currently playing with a band heavily influenced by the velvet underground and just love john cale's bass playing.

i think he played bass on a fender jazz, but not sure.

i'm guessing he probably played through a bassman?

the band i'm playing in does a version of 'guess i'm falling in love', which is completely new to me.

the bass playing is amazing!
 
Cale only played bass on the first album (VU & Nico). Sterling Morrison played bass while Cale mainly played viola and keys on the second album (White Light/White Heat). Then Cale quit, Morrison moved to guitar and Doug Yule played bass (The Velvet Underground and Loaded). Eventually everyone except Yule quit and the last album (which most people, including the surviving band members, deny is a VU album) is Yule multitracking himself on everything (Squeeze).

As for equipment they probably played all kinds of things, particularly when on tour. Most of the promotional photos show a Jazz bass but I wouldn't assume there was any kind of commitment to it.
 
currently playing with a band heavily influenced by the velvet underground and just love john cale's bass playing.

i think he played bass on a fender jazz, but not sure.

i'm guessing he probably played through a bassman?

the band i'm playing in does a version of 'guess i'm falling in love', which is completely new to me.

the bass playing is amazing!
From at least ‘66 through ‘68 when he was forced out of the band, he had a Precision, and briefly used a Vox Phantom when the company gave them a bunch of gear(American transistor amps). But he was seen, in an early photo, with a British tube AC-50 rig…
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He did actually play bass on a few of the White Light/White Heat album songs; I love the grind you can hear on “The Gift” if you just pan to the side with the band only(and not listen to the sad story of Waldo, that schmuck). “Guess I’m Falling In Love” was one of those lost tracks that was only officially released in the 80’s(but on bootlegs before that). Cale used the Jazz during the reunion in 1993.

There’s been this British guy on YT, who has done a series of painstaking one-man-band recreations of their songs, plus an in-depth exploration of Sterling and Mo…


…and his trib band:


 
currently playing with a band heavily influenced by the velvet underground and just love john cale's bass playing.

i think he played bass on a fender jazz, but not sure.

i'm guessing he probably played through a bassman?

the band i'm playing in does a version of 'guess i'm falling in love', which is completely new to me.

the bass playing is amazing!
Another area to explore would be his immediate solo activities after he left the Velvets. Aside from his teaming up with Nico, which is it’s own dark saga, his first album, Vintage Violence, is surprisingly upbeat and straight ahead, songwriting-wise, for someone who was kicked out of the VU for being too experimental. While not definitive, it’s an interesting album, and Cale does play bass, although Harvey Brooks gets credit as well.

On the other hand, he followed that up with a collaboration with avant-garde minimalist Terry Riley, the title track featuring bass work which may be closer to what you’re looking for…


Two more titles I’d recommend, Paris 1919, great songs of depth, with plush orchestrations. However, Wilton Felder is on bass, but you also get Lowell George and Richie Hayward of Little Feat. Then, one of my all-time favorites, Fear, with him contributing bass along with everything else, plus Phil Manzanera and Brian Eno from Roxy Music, and Richard Thompson.
 
There's this. I see a Bassman in the video.


That’s just an assembly of random footage from different sources; there’s a white Kustom rig in the stage shots, and that Fender could also be a Bandmaster. Who is plugged into what is anyone’s guess. But in every still photo that I’ve ever seen of the Cale era band live, there was a Vox for John, shown in the first photo of my first post, as well as here…

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Warhol wrangled an endorsement deal for them…
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At times during 1968 they were reported to have used Acoustic live, but the first two albums were recorded in 1966 and 1967, respectively, way before that company existed. After Doug Yule took Cale’s place, they got an entire Sunn backline.
 
That’s just an assembly of random footage from different sources; there’s a white Kustom rig in the stage shots, and that Fender could also be a Bandmaster. Who is plugged into what is anyone’s guess. But in every still photo that I’ve ever seen of the Cale era band live, there was a Vox for John, shown in the first photo of my first post, as well as here…

View attachment 7264846View attachment 7264847Warhol wrangled an endorsement deal for them…
View attachment 7264851


At times during 1968 they were reported to have used Acoustic live, but the first two albums were recorded in 1966 and 1967, respectively, way before that company existed. After Doug Yule took Cale’s place, they got an entire Sunn backline.
Nice to see VOX being used (besides an AC30), those were the days.
 
currently playing with a band heavily influenced by the velvet underground and just love john cale's bass playing.

i think he played bass on a fender jazz, but not sure.

i'm guessing he probably played through a bassman?

the band i'm playing in does a version of 'guess i'm falling in love', which is completely new to me.

the bass playing is amazing!

Their bass tone (and production in general) got a bit more polished from album to album, so I guess it depends on which specific song/album you're referring too.

If you're referring specifically to the live version of Guess I'm falling in love, well to me that just sounds like a mic'ed amp that's played LOUD in a less than ideal "room". It might be a J-bass (with the neck pickup soloed), it might be a P-bass, or it might be something else. Bassman? Maybe, but it could also be something else. If I had to make a wild guess, I would say it's at least cab with 15" speakers, but I might be wrong. Of course, a MODERN bass cab, even with 15" speakers, won't sound even remotely like that. Modern bass cabs are way too tight, "hi-fi" sounding and have far too much high frequency extension for that kind of tone. Modern bass amps will also be too tight/"hifi" sounding. And of course, any kind of digital modelling or amp-in-a box pedals won't get you there either. They always end up sounding way too "perfect" and polished for this type of tone.

A Bassman with an original 2x15 cab would probably get you close. But as a cheaper option, even a 70s Peavey solid state amp with a matching 2x15 will probably get you closer than any modern bass amps/cabs (even though modern bass amps/cabs are significantly better from a purely technical perspective).

Of course, a period correct Bassman is only 50w, which isn't much by today's standards. Maybe something like a 100w Showman could be a better choice? Even back then many bass players left the Bassman amps to guitar players and used the more powerful Showman for bass.

And of course, how the bass guitar is perceived for songs like these will also depend on the tone/tuning of the kick drum (and in the case of their first album also the toms) and how it interacts with the bass, especially the attack of the notes.

I honestly don't really hear anything out of the ordinary with the bass tone on any of their studio albums. If anything I would say it sounds like a slightly poorly recorded/mixed bass (by modern standards) at least on their earlier stuff. But it WORKS and it sounds great, even though it's not really a fantastic tone from a purely technical perspective. In addition to using period correct equipment, the key element to getting this kind of tone is probably to not get too obsessed about tone...

Of course, when playing songs like this at live gigs today, the quality of modern PA systems might even work against you, because THEY will also sound too "hi-fi" and modern for this type of music. If you want to recreate the sound of "vintage" VU at a live gig today, you would probably have to either bring a crappy, period correct PA system or it would have to be in a small venue where you don't mic the amps, just CRANK them and go for it.
 
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Of course, when playing songs like this at live gigs today, the quality of modern PA systems might even work against you, because THEY will also sound too "hi-fi" and modern for this type of music. If you want to recreate the sound of "vintage" VU at a live gig today, you would probably have to either bring a crappy, period correct PA system or it would have to be in a small venue where you don't mic the amps, just CRANK them and go for it.
You put the instruments through a grey scale filter, also has settings for 2 tone or sepia, takes out 90% of color saturation down to pure grey scale if you want. Helps to add a little sand texture too for the not enough light for a good exposure effect.
 
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Their bass tone (and production in general) got a bit more polished from album to album, so I guess it depends on which specific song/album you're referring too.

If you're referring specifically to the live version of Guess I'm falling in love, well to me that just sounds like a mic'ed amp that's played LOUD in a less than ideal "room". It might be a J-bass (with the neck pickup soloed), it might be a P-bass, or it might be something else. Bassman? Maybe, but it could also be something else. If I had to make a wild guess, I would say it's at least cab with 15" speakers, but I might be wrong. Of course, a MODERN bass cab, even with 15" speakers, won't sound even remotely like that. Modern bass cabs are way too tight, "hi-fi" sounding and have far too much high frequency extension for that kind of tone. Modern bass amps will also be too tight/"hifi" sounding. And of course, any kind of digital modelling or amp-in-a box pedals won't get you there either. They always end up sounding way too "perfect" and polished for this type of tone.

A Bassman with an original 2x15 cab would probably get you close. But as a cheaper option, even a 70s Peavey solid state amp with a matching 2x15 will probably get you closer than any modern bass amps/cabs (even though modern bass amps/cabs are significantly better from a purely technical perspective).

Of course, a period correct Bassman is only 50w, which isn't much by today's standards. Maybe something like a 100w Showman could be a better choice? Even back then many bass players left the Bassman amps to guitar players and used the more powerful Showman for bass.

And of course, how the bass guitar is perceived for songs like these will also depend on the tone/tuning of the kick drum (and in the case of their first album also the toms) and how it interacts with the bass, especially the attack of the notes.

I honestly don't really hear anything out of the ordinary with the bass tone on any of their studio albums. If anything I would say it sounds like a slightly poorly recorded/mixed bass (by modern standards) at least on their earlier stuff. But it WORKS and it sounds great, even though it's not really a fantastic tone from a purely technical perspective. In addition to using period correct equipment, the key element to getting this kind of tone is probably to not get too obsessed about tone...

Of course, when playing songs like this at live gigs today, the quality of modern PA systems might even work against you, because THEY will also sound too "hi-fi" and modern for this type of music. If you want to recreate the sound of "vintage" VU at a live gig today, you would probably have to either bring a crappy, period correct PA system or it would have to be in a small venue where you don't mic the amps, just CRANK them and go for it.

If you’re referring to the version of GIFIL in post #5, that is not a “live” version, just merely a demo or studio outtake matched with a collection of random footage of the band, some of it from a gig. There was an officially released live version, pretty much on a bootleg level, that was included in the expanded White Light/White Heat release, but that ain’t it.
I will reiterate, and as shown in the archival photos above, during his time in the Velvets Cale used a Precision, with a brief dalliance of a Vox Phantom, and a what appears to be a British Vox AC-50 tube head and a single 18” cab, better known as the Foundation rig…


Bill Wyman used those as well in the early days of the Stones, sometimes with two cabinets. It would stand to reason that Cale, from the U.K.(well, Wales)would gravitate towards that brand. When the American Vox company gave the Velvets gear in an endorsement deal, Cale might have ended up with the US solid state equivalent, the Westminster, or a Super Beatle, and perhaps used other amps in a one-off situation, but I’ve not seen any conclusive photos of that.

During the 1993 reunion tour of Europe, Cale certainly used a Jazz Shaped Object, and what looks like an SVT…


The rawness of their studio recordings was a result of circumstance, but it actually enhances their music, and what they were all about. The 1970 album Loaded, the only one recorded for Atlantic Records at their studios, has always been the odd man out of the VU catalog, as it was almost too clean, supervised by Beatles/Liverpool associate Adrian Barber. Still a great collection, with classic tunes, it showcases Doug Yule’s growing contributions, but at the same time, Lou had his foot out the door. Mo Tucker was actually not on that album.

If you check out Cam Forrester’s recreations of their material, it turns out he was using Marshall solid state emulator amps housed in Vox head cabs, as well as the old Vox VTX/AD “blue” series heads.
 
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