How do I quantify how 'bad' my timing is?

[DBFIU]

Hi,

I know that when playing bass, timing is everything. Some people say they dont like when a bassist wanders off beat. Scientifically speaking, how early or late does initiating the note with respect to the beat have to be before the average person (not trained) will find it unacceptable? Preferably in milliseconds?

Thanks,

 

[PauFerro]

I think you're being too scientific about it. I also think you're assuming that the best bass players play right on the beat. They don't always -- you can create a really good groove by playing slightly behind the beat. Provided the drums stay constant, this can be cool. You can also play slightly after the beat, provided the drummer stays constant. This is per Marcus Miller on a discussion forum when I asked him this question about feel and beat.

The real test is when you play a series of notes out of time that push the band off. You can tell when you start speeding up the band, or when there are a lot of easy-to-play notes close together that encourage rushing. There is a human tendency to play easy-to-play, close together or repetitive notes faster than the song.

I would simply use a metronome and make sure you are usually on the beat, or consistently before it or after it if you have a good drummer who understands the feel you're creating. The metronome will highlight when you speed up too many notes, and where you need to relax and play in the pocket.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

record yourself with a metronome or click track and listen to it, you may hear your weakness

 

[JackoBass]

+1 to metronome BUT resist the urge to think you've done enough and get bored. Really, woodshed at different BPM's for big chunks of time without turning it off. You might do 20 minutes at 80 BPM, 20 at 90 BPM, etc. then and only then start trying to play "ahead" or "behind". And demand your drummer do the same if he also has timing steadiness issues because you can be rock solid but the drummer ultimately tells the punks when to dance..

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

practice practice practice PRACTICE. That's how you get good timing.

If you want an interesting example of music recorded with REALLY lose timing, check out John Scofield "A GoGo". The bass and drums are so strangely loose that they seem out of sync - until they are right where they should be. It's very cool.

 

[hover]

Why get hung up in measurements of time you would never be able to measure in real world play, and focus on FEEL. Play with the beat. on the beat, or make it swing. lay it vback off the beat or push ahead of the beat slightly.

 

[McFarlin]

First get a video camera.
Then pick a song you know.
Set up your bass/amp/cab next to a stereo.
Start the mp3/CD, and while you play along have a friend mute and un-mute the track at random for varying lengths of time.
With all this captured on video, play it back in font of other musicians and the most critical figures in your life (e.g. HS football coach, exes).
This only works if you really care about what others think. That's important. Because the only way to be honest with yourself about skill level is to be overly-critical to the point of "bottoming-out", sell all of your gear and buy a bunch of photography equipment or one of those stand-up paddle boards, then a month later sell that at a loss to fund new bass gear but instead of practicing spend most of your free time on talkbass trying to figure-out what other amp would work best for you based on the opinions of other social media addicts. Eventually this will all equalize and you can find your voice.

Or +1 on the metronome or whatever

 

[smeet]

practice practice practice PRACTICE. That's how you get good timing.

If you want an interesting example of music recorded with REALLY lose timing, check out John Scofield "A GoGo". The bass and drums are so strangely loose that they seem out of sync - until they are right where they should be. It's very cool.

Also an example of how much pot a rhythm section can smoke and still play a killing groove.

 

[HeisnbrgUncertn]

Hi,

I know that when playing bass, timing is everything. Some people say they dont like when a bassist wanders off beat. Scientifically speaking, how early or late does initiating the note with respect to the beat have to be before the average person (not trained) will find it unacceptable? Preferably in milliseconds?

Thanks,

If you're looking to calibrate your internal metronome, setup a click track, and run through some grooves, arpeggios, whatever. When you get to the point where you can't hear the click because you're right on it, you've playing on top of the beat. If you're practicing Jazz, set the metronome to click on 2 and 4 -- it swings better. Once you've got that down, you need to learn how to play behind and in front of the beat. It's a subtle thing, but a lot of players make it harder than it is.

To develop your skill in pushing or pulling the time, find some drum loops where the snare is just a hair behind the 2 and 4 and some where the snare hits a smidgeon ahead of the beat. Tempo match your loops to your metronome. Here, the metronome serves as a reference point and if you listen closely, you'll hear, feel, and see where the snare is placed relative to the metronome. Practice playing along with these loops until rushing and pulling back on the reins feels natural and you don't need to think about it. Try deliberately changing how quickly or how slowly you attack the notes in the pocket. Solo your bass track and click periodically to get a sense of how you're developing.

These exercises will give you a good foundation, but the proof is in playing with other musicians live. A lot of cats equate playing behind the beat with playing slower. Not the same thing at all. The pocket is malleable, but there is a line between carefully controlling where in the pocket you place your notes and being out of meter.

The most important thing is knowing where the 1 is, even if you're playing syncopated lines or in odd meters. As long as everyone in the band feels that 1, you're in good shape.

 

[DBFIU]

Is it frowned upon, or does it look badly, if you play behind the beat, after the beat, behind the beat, after the beat, for every other beat? Or must you play behind the beat for a certain amount of time before it starts to not feel weird?

Thanks

 

[guy n. cognito]

Here's how you tell: if you're ever told that you need to work on your timing.....then you have horrible timing. Otherwise, don't overthink it.

 

[smeet]

Is it frowned upon, or does it look badly, if you play behind the beat, after the beat, behind the beat, after the beat, for every other beat? Or must you play behind the beat for a certain amount of time before it starts to not feel weird?

Thanks

I don't know that there are any hard-and-fast rules. If you're playing a groove as part of the rhythm section, you should probably be consistent for a whole section of a song. If you're soloing, you can vary your relationship with the beat. Do metronome exercises, listen to great musicians in jazz, classical, latin, indian, rock, and other styles. Think about their feel and groove, and don't worry about being ahead or behind the beat. As you get more sensitive to musical timing and build up a steadier sense of time, it will happen.

 

[adi77]

record yourself with a metronome or click track and listen to it, you may hear your weakness

^This

 

[hover]

Is it frowned upon, or does it look badly, if you play behind the beat, after the beat, behind the beat, after the beat, for every other beat? Or must you play behind the beat for a certain amount of time before it starts to not feel weird?