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How do you determine how much power is enough?

#41
How does that actually manifest as a limitation in real-world gig situations for you?

It could be 2 different symptoms:
  • Undable to hear myself / be heard by the audience, even with the amp settings cranked up. That would be the consequence of an underpowered amp. I think it never happened to me.
  • Obliged to cut the lows if I want to hear myself because with the EQ I want the cab would fart. That happened to me in loud or outdoor gigs when I could only bring my 1x10 cab.
With modern gear I find that cabs are more often a limitation than amp heads. And if you follow Wasnex maths, the sensitivity of the cab is more important than its power ratting ; unfortunately we rarely know the sensitivty of cabs because many brands and e-commerce websites don't communicate this important spec.
 
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#42
All my amps are rated at 600 watts @ 4ohms.

215 cab is 4ohm 800 watts
410 cab is 8 ohm 1000 watts
Single 15" cab is 8 ohm 400 watts.
212 cab is 8 ohm 800 watts.

I can't recall ever needing to go over half way in volume on any of these cabs in any given situation.

The situations include either acoustic or electric drums.
One band with 2 relatively quiet/controlled guitarists, the other with 2 mind bogglingly loud guitarists.
Probably play about a dozen parties a year's, 10-15 workers clubs a year and about 6-8 festival, Pub, nightclub gigs a year.
Music ranges from Punk to CnW, Disco to Ska, RnR/Blues to Folk Rock.
90% of the time, I'm playing raw without front of house assistance.

The power is there if I need it..
Nothing is stressed or in risk of damage unless I go stupid but since I can't afford to replace or fix things, I don't go stupid.

600 +/- should be ample for most situations.
 
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#44
The rig I've been running several years for most work is around 500w into a 300w 1x15 cab. Not encouraging anyone to run this risk but I feel more likely to damage a rig not bringing enough speaker than because I brought too much amp. A HPF, being able to clearly hear the limits of those cabs and playing with pros who keep a reasonable stage volume helps a bit. Or maybe I've just been lucky?

I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
Stephen Leacock
 
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#46
Diplock said:
The rig I've been running several years for most work is around 500w into a 300w 1x15 cab. Not encouraging anyone to run this risk but I feel more likely to damage a rig not bringing enough speaker than because I brought too much amp. A HPF, being able to clearly hear the limits of those cabs and playing with pros who keep a reasonable stage volume helps a bit. Or maybe I've just been lucky?

I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.
Stephen Leacock
Click to expand...

Yes, HPF and reasonable stage volume help a lot.

But even without, in general a 800W amps put out 800W @4ohm and 350W or 400W @ 8ohm, and single driver cabs are generaly 8ohm, so running a 800W head in a 400W cab is not too risky.

It become risky when you use a 250W 1x10 cab for example. Some people think you just have to use you ears and listen if the cab "suffers", but Agedhorse said in a another thread that some cabs don't warn you before they burn.
 
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#47
I'd say, enough power (Spl) to be able to drown an acoustic drum-set while remaining almost clean.
That's in a 'normal rock band' situation. Either in door or out.

Any more power required, and you will need the drum set to be picked-up by FOH (or "PA" i'm still at pain to get the difference..) and then your bass will be picked-up too. So no need for more power (Spl.)
Of course you don't want to bury nor drown the drummer ! so said power will make for your head-room; that's enough of it.

Those last 12-15 months i've been rehearsing and then giging (about 10 gigs) with a double Micro-Vr Ampeg into their own Svt210Av (one each.) Master-slaved, no phasing issues (horizontal or vertical), no cracking noise at all (into 8ohms, the heads behave fine.) (Bought a quality external DI to avoid the cheap-sounding factory ones.) I've gained enough experience to declare myself happy with this gear, let's see in 2-3 years time how solid this all is (no worry.) [edit : cabs sensitivity are not advertised : I suspect not great. But you get the sweet sound, so just double it.]

Heads are rated 150W Rms into 8ohms each (that's a bit optimistic) : so it's 300Watts into a 4-10.

Won't ever need anything else. Except boutique/tube some day ?
 
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#48
Most small rooms of upto around 100 heads, my 400w will do unless the gtr pushes it, which would mean its loud but not too loud. The problem here for me is clarity and I lose subtlety on higher notes.
On a large stage, 400w is not enough so needs monitor re enforcement.

This configuration is at 4 ohms with 500w of cab.
I have a tone machine amp which is rated at 800w, but its class D.
I don't suspect I'm getting anywhere near max vol out of any of them, but I'm at the edge of useable volume, imv.
 
#50
lOmnivore S said:
I'd say, enough power (Spl) to be able to drown an acoustic drum-set while remaining almost clean.
That's in a 'normal rock band' situation. Either in door or out.

Any more power required, and you will need the drum set to be picked-up by FOH (or "PA" i'm still at pain to get the difference..) and then your bass will be picked-up too. So no need for more power (Spl.)
Of course you don't want to bury nor drown the drummer ! so said power will make for your head-room; that's enough of it.

Those last QUOTE]
Click to expand...
JimmyM said:
Since I don’t want to go deaf, I play with bands who have control of their volumes, and even the loudest don’t require me to need beyond maybe 100w into a couple 210s.
Click to expand...
Same. I get by fine with my Markbass CMD112p and PA support if needed.
 
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#51
In these modern times, watts are cheap and watts are very light.
You can easily get an amp with 800W or more that you can carry with one hand, plus you don't have to break the bank for it.
This is for those who don't really mind about amp topology (the die hard Class A/B and Tube fanatics actually want their amps to be heavy).

My 500 Watt amp is an Aguilar Tone Hammer. It fits in the front pocket of my gig bag and weighs so little, I could not tell from the weight on my shoulders if it's in the bag or not.
Any lighter or any smaller and things would get uncomfortable for me.
What would I miss out on if I swapped that for a 350W amp head? Probably not too much, since I mostly run the 500 at less than 350 watts, but the TH350 does not have an FX loop and it's too small.
 
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#53
I run a 500 watt Tech 21 or a Hartke 600 watt head into 8 ohm cabs.

With a 410, there is plenty of volume and never over half way with the volume knob.

when I run my outgoing 810 at 4 ohms, those heads are plenty loud.

One head hits at 300 watts, the other at 450, I can’t hear the difference.

Both very loud and never have I needed any more horsepower.

If I do upgrade heads, I will go with a 800 watt version just because that’s how Jim Bergintino makes his Forte.
 
#54
I have a Genz Benz 6.0 210 shuttle (375 watts at 8 ohms). If I need more, I add a Genz Benz 112 extension cabinet to get 600 watts at 4 ohms. That's plenty for every gig I have!

BTW, my guitarists have a 40 watt Marshall Amp w/412 cabinet and the other a 100 watt Fender combo...so, I'm pretty good with my blend in the band!!
 
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#56
nightchef said:
Pretty much what the title says. More specifically, if you like:

If you’re currently rocking an 800+ watt rig, what kinds of gigs would you no longer be able to do, or what kind of musical compromises would you have to accept, if you had to make do with a 500 watt rig? (Or transpose the question to 500 —> 350, 350 —> 200, 200 —> 100.)

We all know that less power = less clean headroom. But how does that actually manifest as a limitation in real-world gig situations for you? Is it little tonal infelicities that only you would notice? Gross farting? Speaker damage?

I hope the thread premise makes sense, and I’m looking forward to hearing your responses. (I don’t have any agenda except to learn, I promise.)
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's just impossible to predict know how much power I might need in certain situations, or even how watt ratings of a particular manufacturer translate to actual sound levels in a room. One mfg's 500 watts might be equal to another's 250 watts. I mean, I have played a bunch of 300watt amps in the past, and always felt like they weren't quite enough. Couldn't get loud/clean enough to hear over loud band. But then again, I have an 80 watt trace elliot combo from the 90s, and somehow it's loud as all get out. So what do watts even mean to me? All I know is I want the loudest thing out there that's practical (liftable) and affordable :)

I'd be more worried about going down to a single 12" (half my normal rig) than going from 800watts to 500.
 
#57
Cant recall a gtr on gig with more than 40w valves.
My 400w B or 800w class D amps struggle there to keep up if it were to get silly. (Ear plug time)
But thats just the way i ask my amps to respond and I hate having to dig in hard.
 
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