How Do You Know When Your Playing Is At A Professional Level?

[capnsandwich]

This individual is slightly misusing the english language. He is searching for a way to ask you how proficient you are. It's a hard question to answer because if he's already unclear on what "professional" means, it's probably going to be very hard to describe to him how professional you are.

That's why I kind of stood there and pondered how good I really am. If he has expectations of a player who makes a living playing bass and I told him "yes" then he'd think I was a liar after he found out I work in a factory.

Interestingly enough,one of the noun definitions ( http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/professional read the first set of definitions, not the wikipedia notations that follow) of professional is "an authority qualified to teach apprenticies" this might be a good way to reflect on your abilities. Are you good enough to properly teach apprentices?

If playing bass is your profession (i.e. you're making most of your livelyhood playing bass), and you are good enough to pass your skills on, then the best answer in your case is probably "yes".

In my case, I get paid to play, but it's not my livelyhood, so I would answer now. Also, I'm probably not a good enough bassist to be a good teacher of all but beginning students.

I can teach people up to a certain level and have on both guitar and bass but they were kids. I probably could teach an older bassist some things but then again he could probably teach me a few things too.

 

[scootron]

This is such a nebulous area. I've been paid a good amount of money to play a gig, but no way I consider myself a professional. I don't possess the skill set. I have seen people (including Derek Jones down on the Alabama/Florida line) that are as good as anyone out there, but who are not making a living playing bass.

It is really difficult to describe your own talent level. I used to think I was pretty good for someone who had only been playing for such a short time, but I've been playing long enough now, that I know I could and should be a lot better.

Best you can do is just strive to get better and better, and let the rest take care of itself.

BTW, just because you work in a factory doesn't mean you aren't professional level. One of the best bassists I have ever seen (and over 52 years that includes a bunch of them) worked as a school teacher.

 

[Bochafish]

This individual is slightly misusing the english language. He is searching for a way to ask you how proficient you are. It's a hard question to answer because if he's already unclear on what "professional" means, it's probably going to be very hard to describe to him how professional you are.

Interestingly enough,one of the noun definitions ( http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/professional read the first set of definitions, not the wikipedia notations that follow) of professional is "an authority qualified to teach apprenticies" this might be a good way to reflect on your abilities. Are you good enough to properly teach apprentices?

If playing bass is your profession (i.e. you're making most of your livelyhood playing bass), and you are good enough to pass your skills on, then the best answer in your case is probably "yes".

In my case, I get paid to play, but it's not my livelyhood, so I would answer now. Also, I'm probably not a good enough bassist to be a good teacher of all but beginning students.

I really like this post. How can you answer when he's is not sure what he means either.
What I think the guy was trying to get at was what Rufus Reid calls "the pulse" in his evolving bassist dvd. He describes it as, "That intangible 'thing' that makes people react to you and want to hear more." Some players just wow you, and the rest are above average, average, or below. I think he was trying to see where you fell in the spectrum, which is hard to judge unless you get lots of feedback on a regular basis.
And even then, its still all subjective. When I listened to mostly metal back in the day, I would have said Dream Theaters bassist was a real pro, but I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between Paul Chambers and the dude in our high school jazz band.

 

[Oraflora]

Answering the question "So how good are you?" is like answering the question, "So, how attractive are you?"

 

[scootron]

Answering the question "So how good are you?" is like answering the question, "So, how attractive are you?"

+1

 

[capnsandwich]

Answering the question "So how good are you?" is like answering the question, "So, how attractive are you?"

I know I'm a hottie, in a Chris Farley sort of way.

 

[rollcall]

umm no time to comment on this one I have to be at my third gig today in a few minutes

 

[fdeck]

In my view, being a "professional" has to do with how we treat our customers. To me, it means that when I agree to a job, the person hiring me doesn't have to worry about anything. I will turn down a job if it's over my head. Otherwise, I will show up on time, ready to work, with the right tools for the job, and I will get it right on the first try with little or no supervision.

For a band, it means that when a club hires you, the club owner can say to themselves, "Glad I hired that band, one less thing to worry about."

 

[fdeck]

BTW, just because you work in a factory doesn't mean you aren't professional level. One of the best bassists I have ever seen (and over 52 years that includes a bunch of them) worked as a school teacher.

Good point. For this reason I call myself a "part time professional" out of respect for those who are doing it full time.

 

[fourfinger]

IMO there are a lot of bassists who "play at a professional level" without making a living at it. I mean, not everyone has to be a "consummate professional," who can play anything and knows a thousand songs.

I think it's not uncommon to find a "weekend warrior" who performs at a professional level in one style of music.

My definition of playing at a professional level would include:

• always knowing exactly what you need to know, whatever that might be
• being able to get a good sound just about anyplace
• understanding how various songs are best supported in various ways, and having a "bag of tricks" big enough to handle what you play
• being able to do every show with no apparent mistakes, even on your worst day
• being adept at covering band mistakes (for example, knowing when [and how] to subtly adjust a tempo vs. when to just go with it and adjust your part instead)
• being able to contribute appropriately to a show as well as a song (whether that means flying leaps, or just smiling, or just keeping your tux clean)

If I did all that, I would not hesitate to answer the question "Yes, I play at a professional level."

Since I don't quite, I'd just say "You be the judge. See you on Saturday!"

 

[mutedeity]

Career= getting paid to do something for a living. Generally speaking if you do something for a living your are usually a professional at it, but its not a requirement.

Professional refers to a level of competence or expertise, behavior, and even appearance within your chosen field. A professional has the ability to get paid for what he does, but that isn't a qualification to be considered professional.

Getting paid for doing something does not necessarily qualify you as professional. I could go and clean someone's drain out for them and get paid for it, but it does not make me a professional plumber.

Insofar as the specifics of being a professional bassist is concerned...do you have a thorough understanding of music theory as it applies to your instrument, and an ability to utilize that understanding in a group setting at a highly competent level? I would say that probably qualifies you as professional.

YMMV

Well, I gave you one of the Oxford dictionary definitions of a professional. Getting paid to clean someone's drains out might not make you a professional plumber, it does make you a professional drain cleaner, though, technically.

As for understanding music theory, there are any number of people that play music as their sole source of income that know very little about theory out there.

Really the original post is a fairly arbitrary question to be honest. As someone said before, if you are here wondering if you are on a professional level as a musician the answer is probably no, you aren't.

The whole point I am trying to make is that being a professional musician isn't about some high minded notion of what makes you good enough. It's simply about whether you are capable of doing it and getting paid.

 

[rockinrayduke]

I made my living playing music for 30 years playing in show/dance bands, traveling the US and world and all that. In 2004 I took a daytime job and became for all intents and purposes a "weekend warrior", playing for fun and $$. I still play at a professional level no matter whether I do it for a living or not.

The whole point I am trying to make is that being a professional musician isn't about some high minded notion of what makes you good enough. It's simply about whether you are capable of doing it and getting paid.

Exactly.

 

[Baird6869]

Lots of good points....

I don't personally know the answer or think there is a definative one.

I mean, I can personally play most cover band stuff like RHCP, ZZ Top, Stones, a lot of Zepplen and Steely Dan... some funky hard to play Stevie Wonder, etc. I can hear a song on the radio and learn it quickly.

Can I play much Jaco or Wooten or Stanley Clarke? Not really. If I spent the time learning the tunes (and technique MUCH different than mine) I likely might do ok. Can I sight read Jazz? Not a chance but I can follow a Jazz cheat sheet fairly well.

I guess every answer will be different. Look at how basic the playing many famous bassists are. U2? Pretty basic. Fall Out Boy? Good old Pete can't read or write music to save his life and can barely even play fingerstyle. Jamerson wasn't technically impossible but the tone he got out of his bass and/or the touch he used is very hard to duplicate.

I am very critical of myself and would not consider myself to be at a professional level. I am an average-above average bassist IMO, but that is just me. I would say that for me to consider myself at this level, I would have to be competent enough to show up at a studio or a gig and quickly be ready to play anything off of a sheet of music. I am not even close to being there.

I am "professional" in my approach and on gigs, but when I think of a professional musician, I think of someone more technical and learned musically.

 

[gmarcus]

It probably depends on where you live and play. In Cambridge we used to have:

Jammers: could keep it together at blues jams
Jazzers: could play through jazz changes competently
Rockers: could play in a rock band
Pros: could play anything with very little practice

I'm sure there were others too.

 

[mrokern]

That's tough to say. I mean, there are tons of people playing bass professionally who I wouldn't consider to be at a "professional level".

To me, that would mean that you could sit in with almost any group in any genre and be able to deliver a solid performance. That means a wide knowledge of genres, the ability to read music, and the ability to lock in immediately with any assortment of other musicians.

Basically, if anyone, anywhere could hire you if a bassist is needed, be it a jazz band, a stage musical, a rock gig, church praise and worship, funk, or even classical... THEN I'd consider you to be at a professional level. My old college band director used to call that "basic competence."

See, to me that's a session player. There's plenty of folks that would be considered a pro by any sense of the word that don't fit the above.

Adam Clayton: great work in U2, freely admits that he doesn't do well outside that band or with most other drummers.

Jason Newsted: I don't see him playing Mr. Pink anytime soon, but again, I dare somebody to say he isn't a pro at what he does.

I played trumpet at what would be considered a professional level...I sat in with major symphony orchestras, did solo work, taught, and so on...but all in the classical genre. Stick me in front of a jazz band and tell me to solo to a Stan Kenton tune, and I'd stand there in my tux saying, "Excuse me, are you insane? Where's my pianist, and do you know the Hummel Concerto in E flat?"

Most other instruments don't require competence in every genre to be considered pro, yet it seems to be a very common theme in the bass world. Still kind of confuses me...

-Mark

 

[RiddimKing]

Sid Vicious

 

[Spencer!]

Most other instruments don't require competence in every genre to be considered pro, yet it seems to be a very common theme in the bass world. Still kind of confuses me...

I think this stems from the fact that there are just less bass players than any other instrumentalists. We're more in-demand which means that more bands of different genres will be calling for the same players.

 

[seanm]

I make a distinction between pro and semi-pro. And like most of the definitions here... it is fairly arbitrary

A semi-pro, by my definition, is somebody who can do a paid gig at the going rate and get asked back.

A pro is a semi-pro who earns their living from music over a period of time.

And once you reach the pro level, you don't lose the distinction.

 

[mutedeity]

I make a distinction between pro and semi-pro. And like most of the definitions here... it is fairly arbitrary

A semi-pro, by my definition, is somebody who can do a paid gig at the going rate and get asked back.

A pro is a semi-pro who earns their living from music over a period of time.

And once you reach the pro level, you don't lose the distinction.

I'm glad you used the "a" word it saved me from saying it yet again.

I think you have to look at it this way. Does your government consider you getting paid taxable? If so you are a professional in whatever field you are making money from.

 

[sound of bass]

That's tough to say. I mean, there are tons of people playing bass professionally who I wouldn't consider to be at a "professional level".

To me, that would mean that you could sit in with almost any group in any genre and be able to deliver a solid performance. That means a wide knowledge of genres, the ability to read music, and the ability to lock in immediately with any assortment of other musicians.

Basically, if anyone, anywhere could hire you if a bassist is needed, be it a jazz band, a stage musical, a rock gig, church praise and worship, funk, or even classical... THEN I'd consider you to be at a professional level. My old college band director used to call that "basic competence."

I would have to agree with this the most. BUT, when you are being paid to perform, you are working professionally in that present time..... it doesnt MAKE you a professional as with all abilities mentioned in the quote, but you're working professionally. If you work in a hospital, factory etc., and play covers on the weekend for pay, you're working professionally on the weekends. I have sold some art over the years, have been hired for several projects and have been paid, but I make my living as a professional paramedic, if someone asked me about art and asked if i was a pro. my answer is a HUGE yes? because Ive been paid for my art / work / talent at those times. Thats how I see it.