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How do you select cab configuration? (10's,12's,15's,18's?)

#21
over the past 7 years:
1x12 60w fender bxr60 kinda loud, boxy sound, too heavy
1x12 50w ampeg B50r good tone, not loud, heavy
2x8 150w ampeg B328 good tone, kinda loud, heavy
2x10 100w SWR WM10+10ext, ok, modular, almost loud enough for drums
2x12 250w cab SWR BM12's + SWR Bass 350, loud, need better tone...add RBI
2x10 EA cxl110 cabs, ok tone, not loud enough, heavy
1x12 EA CXL112 cab, better tone, louder, heavy
...tried EA next to Aguilar GS112... NO CONTEST!!! for me.

WHERE AM I NOW?...
2x12 Aguilar GS112 + GS112NT RBI/Stewart 1.2 = Rig 1
1x12 Aguilar GS112 + Eden WT550 = Rig 2

I play about 105 dbc on stage at church. my new WT550 with one Aguilar can handle that quite well, but I use two to ease the stress on the cabs. I have PA support too.

I stand close to my speakers, I think if you stand more than 5 feet away you might need 410's or 15" speakers to carry the lows farther?? maybe this is a Phenominon? in the room I play. if I get more than 10' away the bass drops way off, even though it may be mind numbinly loud or heavy a couple feet from the speakers:rolleyes:
 
#22
I think the type of speakers you use really depends on your personal taste, not someone else's. I happen to like 15's (2x15 the most,) because I like bass to sound like bass. This might not work for you or Joe Shmoe down the street, so I really suggest hooking up various combinations and see what sounds good to you.
 
#23
hmm..

lots of differing theories, so i might as well throw my hat in there as well..

the smaller the speaker, the more responsive, punchier and tighter the sound. but larger speakers have more natural cushy low end.

thus, a cab loaded w/ 10" speakers will punch and cut thru a dense mix, much easier than a slower moving 15" speaker. while a single 15" speaker wont need extra goosing of the bass knob for the pillowy fat bass feel.

and yet, while EQ does change things to a certain degree, speaker size does dictate the overall sound. i.e. adding more bass to a single 10" speaker will still sound like nothing more than a thick guitar string. and vice versa, adding more lower mids to a 15" speaker still wont punch or cut like a 4x10 cab.

and like munji and others alluded to, there are MANY 10" loaded cabs that thx to creative porting and well engineered drivers allow those cabs to reach crazy low lows, as skeptical some maybe. ;)
 
#24
Munjibunga said:
Hmmm ... wonder why they don't do the same thing for their 15's and 18's.
Click to expand...

Probably because their 18 came out a long time ago. They likely measured that cab back then in a different setting. The 210xst is a newer product, and could have been measured in a different setting and/or with different tools. As well, the quoted specs for their 410xlt used to say -6dB at 30hz....it no longer does. Different specs quoted yet the same cab with the exact same drivers (and i checked to be sure).

Munji it's simple transducer physics. a single 18 in an appropriate enclosure has at least twice the cone area as 2 10's do. 18's are also notorious for greater excursion than nearly any production 10's I've seen, especially those rated at average spl's above 96/watt.

More air moved=more bass. There's no way around it.

And btw, it's David Nordshaw, not David Eden. An Eden fanatic should know that.
 
#27
I have always chosen my cab's with my bass. For the first 10 years of playing I only would use 15's. Then I ran into 18's for the next 7 or 8 years. I never liked 10's but wound up using them for another 6 years. Then I stumbled upon TB and a mega-thread for Schroeder. I am smitten to say the least. I still actually stand by my first impression of finding cab's. I take my bass in and try everything I can or want.
 
#28
jokerjkny said:
like munji and others alluded to, there are MANY 10" loaded cabs that thx to creative porting and well engineered drivers allow those cabs to reach crazy low lows, as skeptical some maybe. ;)
Click to expand...

10's seem to compliment 12's very nicely IMO. Like joker said, due to new drivers and porting, 10's can add more lows than they used to and still deliver punch and quickness. The addition of the 10's would also help you cut through your guitars and drummer.
 
#29
I tried a few different setups and personally I prefer a combination of a 4x10 and an 1x15 cabinet. This brings not only enough deep frequencies but also the right attack if needed. If I had to choose betweenn my two cabinets I'd take the 4x10, but you get the best sound with both of them running.
 
#33
ehque said:
i wonder why people havent jumped onto the 24X6.5 cabs yet? has anyone tried it? the 32X6.5 freq response curve is FLAT... all the way to the tens of hertz. quite scary in the graph.

i think they are called pirahnas?
Click to expand...

I've got a Phil Jones Bass rig with 15 of the speakers you describe (they're 5", not 6.5"). Has lots of bass and sub-bass to my ears, but others don't seem to think so (which I attribute to my sense that it has more mids and upper mids than people are used to). My guess why more people don't own it: It's also pretty heavy (although small) and of course relatively expensive and rare for testing. And some people who've heard it just don't like the sound.

I didn't buy that rig or others based on configuration per se, but after owning a bunch of cabinets (Eden 410xlt, 210xlt, 115t, Mesa RR 15, Mesa RR 210, Aguilar S410, Cerwin Vega 18...) and trying out even more I had a sense that I tend to prefer 12" and smaller speakers.

Basically I do research on individual pieces, think about my wants, and then use my tastes, ears and wallet. I could have ended up with a bigger speaker config (see Bergatino, Accugrove, Glockenklang, Epifani) but I just happened a good deal on this rig and I'm content with it.

Marshall
 
#34
Munjibunga said:
No, it's David Eden. I've met him in person, and his name is on my cabinets.

Anyway, ol' K Dubb sure is making a lot of conjecture about Eden's testing procedures. Sooaaahhh, when you A/B'd the D-210XST against the D-118XL, what were the results?
Click to expand...


Okay okay. If indeed David Eden is the guy, then so be it I'm bested in that area. I've never met anybody from the company, so I'll admit I wouldn't know this one for sure. My comment here was one based on previous repetitive statements from other TB'ers who said the guy was David Nordschow (typo the first time).

That said, nothing changes the fact that a woofer setup which moves at least twice as much air as another in the region from 30hz to 60hz will put out more sound pressure in that region. It doesn't matter where the ports are, or what shape they are. If the enclosures are properly designed for both setups, there's no way around it. Bgavin, BillFitzmorris, and half a dozen other Tbers plus the entire community of folks who are learned of T/S figures, the laws of physics, and how they both apply in enclosure design and application.

If anybody, and I mean anybody, can identify a conventional 10" woofer with an overall spl of 100dB/watt which can put out spl's in the 30-60hz region at -6dB's (assuming smooth response characteristics, which are something Eden's cabinets also don't have on a hz by hz basis...then again nearly nobody's do) in a cabinet of the same size as the eden 210xst WITHOUT quarter wave horn amplification at 30hz, I'll eat my words (but I require proof of such a thing, not just more fanboy claims). Even if such a thing were possible, it wouldn't have the ability to continue to produce that response curve with several hundred watts of power behind it. x-max would see to that.
 
#35
You start with a driver that's large enough to go to the lowest frequency you want to reproduce, at the volume you want to reproduce it at. You measure that driver's high frequency response, and where it's response either is down 3dB on-axis with falling response above (upper f3) or is down more than 6dB at 30 degrees off-axis you then cross over to a smaller driver, as small as will handle the output requirements at the crossover frequency. You cross over to a third smaller driver when the second driver is unable to provide adequate response, either on or off-axis, assuming that you wish response to go high enough to require the third, or for that matter a fourth or even fifth driver.

That's if you want quality sound reproduction.
 
#36
If anybody, and I mean anybody, can identify a conventional 10" woofer with an overall spl of 100dB/watt which can put out spl's in the 30-60hz region at -6dB's (assuming smooth response characteristics, which are something Eden's cabinets also don't have on a hz by hz basis...then again nearly nobody's do) in a cabinet of the same size as the eden 210xst WITHOUT quarter wave horn amplification at 30hz, I'll eat my words
Click to expand...
You'll have to settle for a burger, there is no such driver.
 
#37
K Dubbs said:
And btw, it's David Nordshaw, not David Eden. An Eden fanatic should know that.
Click to expand...

No it's not.....it's David N. Goliath
And Eden was way back near the beginning!

I know 'cause I read it in the bible!:smug:


Anyway........try a nice 210 cabinet with that 212 and I think you'll find the sound you're looking for.:)
 
#39
metron said:
Just nitpicking but I think technically any standard size driver seeing the same signal will move at the same speed.
Click to expand...
Irrespective of size if it didn't do so the note coming out wouldn't be the same as the one going in. This misnomer is similar to the term 'fast bass', and what you know for sure when someone uses that term is that he doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. Tens simply have stronger midrange response than fifteens, and the ear is most sensitive to the midrange frequencies.
 
#40
K Dubbs said:
Okay okay. If indeed David Eden is the guy, then so be it I'm bested in that area. I've never met anybody from the company, so I'll admit I wouldn't know this one for sure. My comment here was one based on previous repetitive statements from other TB'ers who said the guy was David Nordschow (typo the first time).

That said, nothing changes the fact that a woofer setup which moves at least twice as much air as another in the region from 30hz to 60hz will put out more sound pressure in that region. It doesn't matter where the ports are, or what shape they are. If the enclosures are properly designed for both setups, there's no way around it. Bgavin, BillFitzmorris, and half a dozen other Tbers plus the entire community of folks who are learned of T/S figures, the laws of physics, and how they both apply in enclosure design and application.

If anybody, and I mean anybody, can identify a conventional 10" woofer with an overall spl of 100dB/watt which can put out spl's in the 30-60hz region at -6dB's (assuming smooth response characteristics, which are something Eden's cabinets also don't have on a hz by hz basis...then again nearly nobody's do) in a cabinet of the same size as the eden 210xst WITHOUT quarter wave horn amplification at 30hz, I'll eat my words (but I require proof of such a thing, not just more fanboy claims). Even if such a thing were possible, it wouldn't have the ability to continue to produce that response curve with several hundred watts of power behind it. x-max would see to that.
Click to expand...

It's David Nordschow. Nyuk nyuk nyuk.
 

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