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how do you spell smooth? answer: 6-1-7-6

#21
i want to also add to this thread, that although these channel strip/preamps might be quite expensive, and cost as much or more than alot of complete bass rigs, i may be a 'gear freak' but i'm definitely NOT a 'gear snob' (i hate those types). i can get just as much satisfaction and a smile on my face, playing out of my blue sparkle 1970 'tuck and roll' Kustom K-200 with is 2x15 JBL D140F cab, or my Sunn 200S with its 2x15 JBL cab as i do with these preamps. so to me, all of them are just nice boxes with knobs to play bass thru, and don't feel that they will make me, or anyone else a better player (maybe just a bit more comfortable). and if anyone that lives nearby would like to come over for a first hand test drive, you'd be more than welcome to.
 
#22
it's all good, john. at least with me. now these other d-bags... :D

hey, you're having fun, you're educating us about what these different preamps do, and you're probably saving someone a bunch of money in the process. nice of you to fall on the grenade for us...thanks to you, i will know to bypass everything else and get one of those yammy pres if i ever decide i want one.
 
#23
yeah, i was basically trying to keep this thread free of the all too common replies/comments about how throwing money at gear doesn't make you a better player or get you more gigs (i think that most of us know that ;)). and unless you're somewhat 'kooky' like me, even the best preamp doesn't make that much difference. 99% of it is in your head and fingers anyway. i just really like playing around with this stuff, and with what little i make playing weekly gigs, would take 6 months to pay for just one of them (the opposite of cost-effective).

for me, at this point, its just all about having fun playing music (its my therapy). some people are into having a Rolex or two, even though a timex will keep just as good time. instead of having one really nice watch, i prefer to have some nice preamps.
 
#24
Well said, and a much appreciated research project.
Right there with you; I don't gamble, drink, collect or race motorcycles or cars (anymore), play cards, chase women, etc.
I do get a tremendous amount of enjoyment playing in a R&B / rock band with some X-pros for fun ( as going home with $100 - $150 is not like making money).
Also enjoy experimenting with different gear; the cost to buy and sell gear is nothing compared to the above hobbies.

Have never tried any Manley gear and know they used to get a lot of hype in the audiophile community, intyeresting to hear your opinions on the studio equipment; now that I think about it, I can't recal seeing it in any studios that I've ben a guest engineer in and defineatley not in any I've been employed by; funny as they seem to reference Pultec in most of their ad copy and use those everywhere.
 
#25
Yes - all very interesting, keep em coming.

My take on the Avalon 737 is consistent with your impression = perfect preamp if you generally like the way your bass sounds and just want articulate and useful control of the EQ [add a VT and things get pretty interesting - but that's a different thread I guess]. The Avalon is expensive, but its the hands down the best EQ circuit I ever twiddled - there is no suck knob on this unit. i think this is the element that caused all the hype about these units - its one damned fine EQ. On the other hand, I found the the Avalon compressor almost worthless for bass until I did the "babyface mod" - it is now quite nice. You might want to try it if you find the stock compression circuit too "sleepy".

Invalid Link Removed

I would really like to try that UA compressor, your description makes it sound vintage fat... your review gives me GAS!
 
#26
Hi Foz,
thanks. yeah, i did the babyface mod on mine, and the Avalon's compressor works great now, especially in a live bass rig and you gave an excellent description of the unit. to me, i equate it to a high end transparent microphone. it may not have a particular color or character, say like a U47, but you can use it on everything and never get a bad sound out of it.

of course, the UA's comp has basically been the standard of the industry for a reason, and it makes just about anything you run thru it sound better, both live and in the studio. and to me, the 6176's preamp is also about as good as it gets.

Jim,
i agree with everything that you said. and probably the most expensive/dangerous hobby of those that you mentioned, is chasing women, but i gave up that one along time ago. i prefer them to chase me anyway. ;)
 
#28
since i've often used various channel strip/compressors while recording in the studio, and i, as well as many others, just figured that they would make great preamps, and they really do. i've had a Presonus Eureka for quite a few years and used it as a live bass pre before, but these three are on a whole new level. the nice thing is that they have really high quality instrument level preamps, and alot of them come with a really good compressor.
 
#30
well, after playing thru it more today, and directly comparing it to the ISA 430 MKII, i'm really diggin' the UA 6176, and now think that its my favorite of the three.

the ISA430 MKII is tighter and faster and maybe a little punchier, but the UA is clearer, more transparent (less veiled) and feels like it has a wider frequency response and smoother overall tone, especially thru the midrange. to me, it sounds exactly what you're plugging into it. some say that it is quite 'colored' but i haven't found it to be that way at all.

i'm going to A/B it with the ISA 430 a bit more, and then A/B it with the Avalon, which i think is a bit closer sonically to the UA.
 
#31
johnk_10 said:
yeah. i had a few pieces of Manley gear about 7 years ago and i didn't like care for them. they were too thin sounding to me, so after a week, i returned one, and sold the other.
Click to expand...

I totally know where you're coming from, I think the same of their bazillion dollar mic- not usually my favorite. And the pre's are nice, but there's some sheen on top that almost distracts you from the great low end that is there ( I obviously like it a bit more than you... :)

But the Voxbox, direct, is not like that. Worth a try if you haven't.

And there's definitely one way I'd prefer the ISA over the other two- just the pure flexibility. Give me the Avalon on a vocal, but give me the ISA if I need to fix or change something!
 
#32
johnk_10 said:
Hi Foz,
thanks. yeah, i did the babyface mod on mine, and the Avalon's compressor works great now,
Click to expand...

I forgot about that, it's been a while since I used the 737. Fantastic on vocals, but you're right, slow on bass stock. Does the babyface mod just bump up the attack time?

Makes me jones a bit... I dragged out my little red Langevin (newer, Manley built) dual vocal combo on a couple gigs- that little compressor slams on bass. Great thing about tracking on that unit, you could do bass (two channels), drum overheads, and vocals, all on the same stereo unit, and it sounded great on all three- and none of them shared enough energy at any one frequency to step on each other. That, a clean pre, and something thick in the mids, and you can make any record out there.
 
#35
rbonner said:
Wow, getting really evil there John. I wish you'd just settle on the, "This is the greatest preamp in the world" so I can just buy it and be over with it... Still waiting.

BOB
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,
i don't think that you'd be disappointed with any of these three. it really all depends on what you need it to do. if you have a very even response bass cab (from 45hz-5khz), i'd go with the UA 6176. if you need more EQ, due to your cabs not being so even, yet want clean and smooth tube tone, the Avalon. and if you want/need super fast transients, a great compressor and very precise and variable eq, the ISA 430 MKII. so far, the UA is the one that you can dial in the most useable grind/drive, but the Focusrite can do it too with the 'vintage' limiter setting, just not as well.

IMO, the best thing to do is get a cab that sounds really good to you, without any eq or compression. a really even (flat) cab will take to EQ adjustment alot better than one that has holes in its frequency response.
 
#37
Just this afternoon I was checking out a LA-610 with the store's New American Standard (whatever :D ) Jazz Bass; tomorrow I am going back with my '08 Rickenbacker 4003 that has a scatterwound toaster and early '60s horseshoe pickup to try with the LA-610. Maybe I should leave my wallet at home!
 
#38
I have found that many times the simple preamp or EQ with less knobs, SS devices, wire, switches, IC's, etc can often times be the deapest / clearest / cleanest sounding device during a controlled A/B test (like solo'd with big monitors or in my living room with an A/B box)

Of course many of these subtleties get lost in in a live setting and sometimes even in a mix

The only downside of the simple box is can it provide enough EQ correction for the room with bad acoustics?

Been experimenting with different amps with the same Berg cabinet (SVP-CL pre vs. SM400 vs. LMII) have been surprised lately with how different my EQ has been from the norm as we have been playing some new rooms with "unusual" (horrible) acoustics.

Think the UA has enough lattitiude to tame a tough room?
 
#39
Jim C said:
I have found that many times the simple preamp or EQ with less knobs, SS devices, wire, switches, IC's, etc can often times be the deapest / clearest / cleanest sounding device during a controlled A/B test......
Click to expand...
yep, aka a 'straight-wire' amp. although it really doesn't exist, its basically a 'less is more pure'' design/ideal philosophy.

Jim C said:
Of course many of these subtleties get lost in in a live setting and sometimes even in a mix
The only downside of the simple box is can it provide enough EQ correction for the room with bad acoustics?
Click to expand...
i agree, that's the biggest concern for having somewhat limited eq.


Jim C said:
Think the UA has enough lattitiude to tame a tough room?
Click to expand...

i do think so, but i'll be sure to find out in a week, since i'm taking it to my gig this coming friday. ;)

the UA only has + or - 9db at selectable 70,100 or 200 hz for the lows, and 4.5k, 7K and 10K for the highs, but i do think that that should be enough to tame a room. i'm taking the ISA 430 MKII as well, so i can compare them (on alternating sets) or if i just can't tune to the room with the UA, but i really think that the UA will be great.
 
#40
great thread.
Two things, never give a bro crap about buying gear. Buying music gear is good. It is what you should be spending your money on instead of buying pizza, DVDs, video games, fancy shoes etc.
I also remember at the AES in San Francisco a couple years ago they had a nice Musicman Stingray hooked up to a 6176 right next to an LA610.
I tried both out and liked the LA610 a little better. But darn it sounded tight through either one of them. I could really see gettin gone of those and a Strategy 400 or 500 to be a head to end all heads.
 

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