How do you usually set attack and release times on your compressor when manual controls are available?

[Miles_ONeal]

From the point of view of a FOH person - if you're going to be doing gigs on a regular basis where the sound in the audience is through a PA, a FOH person would MUCH prefer you NOT compress your signal before sending it to FOH. If what you have done compression wise doesn't work, it's very hard (OK, essentially impossible) to undo compression that is already applied to a signal.

FOH has a better chance of making you and your band sound good if you don't compress first. I know that may be an un-popular view around here, but if you want your band to sound good, it's best to work with the FOH person.

You’re assuming there is an FOH person, they’re competent, and they have a compressor in their chain. Any or all of these may or may not be so.
I have a compressor on my board; 95% of the time when I play, I’m either only using my amp, or the FOH doesn’t include a compressor (or it’s not used for bass). The other times I just turn mine off.
I don’t recall exact settings for attack and release but reasonably fast attack and long release. Some of what I play involves sustaining notes a while. Compression ratio finally settled on 4:1.

 

[micguy]

You’re assuming there is an FOH person, they’re competent, and they have a compressor in their chain. Any or all of these may or may not be so.

The worst sound person I ever worked with, we started the gig, there was gobs of feedback, and within half a song we just couldn't continue. I asked the sound person where the vocal mics were patched. Blank stare. I said "let's try them on channels 1,2,3, and 4, left to right as they are on the stage". I got a look of recognition - I had just taught our sound person that having a logical order to how things were laid out on the board (and knowing which mic was which) might make things easier. Needless to say, starting from there, it wasn't a great sounding gig, but I would also state that, given the situation we were in, compressing the bass going to FOH (or not) would not have made a hill of beans difference in that situation. If your FOH person is incompetent, the sound will suck, no matter what you do.

Fast forward a few decades, my current world includes FOH folks that are competent, and there is an abundance of compressor options on the board, including multiband compressors.

If you do gigs where there is a FOH person, it's best to start with the assumption that they have some idea what they are doing. Even if they don't, being cooperative to start with gives you a chance to make suggestions if and when necessary.

 

[HelpImaRock]

You’re assuming there is an FOH person, they’re competent, and they have a compressor in their chain. Any or all of these may or may not be so.
I have a compressor on my board; 95% of the time when I play, I’m either only using my amp, or the FOH doesn’t include a compressor (or it’s not used for bass). The other times I just turn mine off.
I don’t recall exact settings for attack and release but reasonably fast attack and long release. Some of what I play involves sustaining notes a while. Compression ratio finally settled on 4:1.

Most of TalkBass and TheGearPage are cover band and church players. They don't know much about tiny clubs where everything but the vocals are hot off the stage (if there is a stage), and there are no monitors.

 

[RandomKaren]

No fixed rules for bass compression. Pick players want a slower attack to leave the pick transient intact, fingerstyle players like myself might like a faster attack to smooth out finger pop. Although many might like that pop at the front of the note. Some players use compression to smooth out uneven strings and would use a slower release, but for a more lively sound a fast release is better. The best compressor I have is a TL Audio Fat 2, but it's a desktop unit not ideal for a pedalboard I also have one of the big Origin Effects Cali76s and a UAFX 1176. What they all have in common is being full function units able to cover all bases, although the bass presets on the Fat 2 are really good so I usually stick with them. Tbh though while there's a compressor on my guitar pedalboard I usually plug my bass straight in for live playing and use the Fat 2 for recording. I play exclusively fingerstyle fretless with flats so picks, frets, rounds players no doubt have very different opinions.

 

[micguy]

Most of TalkBass and TheGearPage are cover band and church players. They don't know much about tiny clubs where everything but the vocals are hot off the stage (if there is a stage), and there are no monitors.

I’ve done both. A lot of times.

 

[HelpImaRock]

I’ve done both. A lot of times.

please fill in the blanks appropriately

 

[Taustin Powers]

Slow attack and fast release to emphasize the attacks for more punch!

 

[becosfx]

Thanks to everyone for willing to share your opinions and setup details. This really helps in understanding preferences, related playing styles, and intended outcomes when it comes to compression, especially timing settings. We’re mainly curious about timing in numbers (even estimated) because we want to see if there’s a typical range bassists tend to use. I guess there’s no wrong answer or one single ‘right’ answer that fits all. The more data, the better. What works, works, whether it’s one compressor or another.

 

[FaithNoMan]

Slow attack and fast release to emphasize the attacks for more punch!

That's the way I like it too. After years of hating compression bc it "killed my attack", then coming to terms that it makes the recording sound great, I realized I didn't have to hate it anymore.

 

[SteveFromBerlin]

I don‘t know how you set it up but I am one of the few players who likes to be able to get that overproduced sound were every note is the same dynamic, like a plugin (think Dua Lipa / Charlie Puth). Some comps are able to do this without a ducking / blooming effect. I also really like to be able to „play into the comp“ - meaning I can slap or hit a string really hard to get a certain buzz or pop and it won‘t cut your head of.

 

[eddododo]

We’re looking for broader input on how bassists set attack and release times on compressors with manual controls (and also on preferred “auto” options, or reversible timing options like “fast/slow” or “slow/fast”, if applicable for a particular device). We’re trying to better understand the range of timings bassists tend to use. We’re especially interested in the reasons behind your choices, if you wish to elaborate: are they based on your playing style, the type of music, or a specific outcome you’re after? If possible, please include a rough estimate (in milliseconds) of what you feel to be “fast” and “slow” (or “slower”) for both attack and release times, unless your knobs are marked and the values can be deduced. Thanks in advance for your input.

I’m one of the many bassists who have been obsessed with compressors, and I also happen to be a guy who loves designing pedals as a somewhat competent hobbyist

I find I have a split personality, preferring BOTH a simple and elegant pedal with few controls and a well-understood identity, AS WELL as very technical control-every-parameter 12 knob boxes


I find that most players seem to prefer the former, and the ones who don’t STILL can only use a pedal one way at a time, with obvious exceptions.

So I feel like leading with ‘well tuned good sounds’ over ‘control every parameter and hunt for goodness’ is what most guys want. Even if they don’t think so

I’d go so far as to suggest a ‘feel’ switch and a vague ‘response’ knob for the envelope response.. so it’s not just a long attack and slow decay, but rather a ‘punchy’ feel, with a narrow parameter made more or less intense with the response knob.. a medium attack/decay general chewy setting , and then something like a ‘studio’ response with a wide decay and a general smoothing effect

Maybe I’m just thinking out loud about my own ideas, but I do think that super control-laden compressors are always called ‘great compressors’ but great 2/3 knob comps seem to stay on boards forever

 

[becosfx]

I’d go so far as to suggest a ‘feel’ switch and a vague ‘response’ knob for the envelope response.. so it’s not just a long attack and slow decay, but rather a ‘punchy’ feel, with a narrow parameter made more or less intense with the response knob.. a medium attack/decay general chewy setting , and then something like a ‘studio’ response with a wide decay and a general smoothing effect

Unless discretely quantized, such implementation would be hard to engineer, especially in a way that can fit everyone… That’s why, here, we’re looking specifically on attack and release timings, in numbers, to frame a range of preferences among bass players.

From the responses so far, it’s interesting to see that when given the choice, bassists tend to prefer slightly slower attack times, possibly in the range of 20 to 70ms. If that control isn’t available, many will compensate by blending in dry signal. In our own testing, however, attacks longer than 30 to 40 ms usually only work for slower passages. For percussive slap playing, an attack around 15 to 30ms tends to sound “best” (though some prefer even shorter times).

Release times seem more conventional. Faster releases between 50 and 100ms work well in most situations, even when using very fast attack times of just a few milliseconds, as in limiting or “compression as an effect”. Slower releases, above 100ms, may benefit longer notes, but too slow may go against music dynamics, it depends.

Again, this discussion is strictly about timing behavior, not other aspects of compression that may be further refined through additional controls such as dry mix, compression knee, side-chain filtering, and the more important ones, ratio and threshold. Each player likely has their own preference for a certain compression “feel”, which might also include aspects related to sound “coloring” versus “transparency”, but we won’t go into that here.

Once again, thank you all for all your responses.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Unless discretely quantized, such implementation would be hard to engineer, especially in a way that can fit everyone… That’s why, here, we’re looking specifically on attack and release timings, in numbers, to frame a range of preferences among bass players.

From the responses so far, it’s interesting to see that when given the choice, bassists tend to prefer slightly slower attack times, possibly in the range of 20 to 70ms. If that control isn’t available, many will compensate by blending in dry signal. In our own testing, however, attacks longer than 30 to 40 ms usually only work for slower passages. For percussive slap playing, an attack around 15 to 30ms tends to sound “best” (though some prefer even shorter times).

Release times seem more conventional. Faster releases between 50 and 100ms work well in most situations, even when using very fast attack times of just a few milliseconds, as in limiting or “compression as an effect”. Slower releases, above 100ms, may benefit longer notes, but too slow may go against music dynamics, it depends.

Again, this discussion is strictly about timing behavior, not other aspects of compression that may be further refined through additional controls such as dry mix, compression knee, side-chain filtering, and the more important ones, ratio and threshold. Each player likely has their own preference for a certain compression “feel”, which might also include aspects related to sound “coloring” versus “transparency”, but we won’t go into that here.

Once again, thank you all for all your responses.

I generally agree with what you're saying about attack settings longer than 30-40 ms. In opinion this generally only works for very slow/soft playing and with very moderate gain reduction.

With medium-to-fast tempo and medium-to-aggressive playing, attack settings above 20-30 ms are generally too "clacky" IMO.

I keep saying "generally" because it will depend on a number of variables, and there are certainly exceptions. The attack/release settings are never just about the attack/release settings.

Personally I have gone back to using a simple "one knob" pedal compressor for live gigs (the EBS Multicomp). I got sick of spending time dialing in attack, release, etc. on a dark stage. The PERFECT settings will vary with the tempo/feel of each song anyway, and I'm definitely not doing THAT at a live gig. The FOH engineer will compress the bass anyway, so all I need is a little bit of gentle dynamics control to make the bass (amp) "sit" better with the other instruments on stage. What happens in the PA is out of my control anyway.

In the studio I like more control of the dynamics of course, but then I will use rack compressors, or plugins rather than pedal comps.

Which means that a pedal compressor with lots of knobs for attack, release etc. isn't really something I'm interested in to be honest. Been there, done that. I have realized that I prefer maximum simplicity on stage, and in the studio I use either rack gear or plugins for their massively better flexibility,

If the responses you get here don't make much sense compared to what you're experiencing yourself, you also need to keep in mind that you know nothing about the experience level of the people who respond to threads like these, including me of course. People commenting on, and even giving "advice" on topics they clearly don't have a clue about is a relatively frequent thing here on Talkbass. And then of course this misinformation gets pickup up by others, and gets repeated as a "fact".

 

[Mr_BK]

I am a little shocked that I can't anwer that simple question about my attack and release preferences in a few simple words. This shows that I am not as secure in my knowledge about compression as I would have liked.

Now ... usually I would also prefer longer attack times like 20-30 ms. Shorter does give a "soundless spike" and does not please my ears. With 20-30ms the initial transient seems to be a musical "plop" instead, which I do prefer. I also do prefer soft knee compression and optical compressors and think the mix of all this is pleasant.

Release for me is 50-100ms. I rarely change it or even look at it twice.

However ... there are some things that just don't fit in that theory.
1) the Cali76 TX-L has ultra-short attack. Yet it sounds better than all my other comps. I don't know why that is the case.
2) sometimes the "plop" I get with 20-30ms attack emphasises the note and thus the bass line, but it can sound artificial, not very musical. And I can't predict in which scenario this will happen. Drives me nuts. Usually changing the comp in question to a Keeley Pro solves it.
3) There are significant differences when using "compressor limiter" devices as opposed to "compressor sustainer" devices which also affect attack and release. I usually avoid compressor sustainer devices.

So ... I think I am the perfect example of an uninformed or pseudo-informed buyer that will probably make bad buying decisions and knob-turning decisions. And complain about the product later.
Good luck with me as a customer ... and as someone who answers in this thread


Note: mostly finger style and rock music, only rarely slap, no pick.

 

[Deleted member 409773]

I put pictures with my settings.

I use two Empress Bass MKIIs and a Cali76 v2. I'm a Slow Attack and Fast Realease guy, but I don't know why, I don't like the slowest attack and fastest release on my comps (I don't have a good feel when I play with the slowest attack and the fastest release, but at 3 o'clock is perfect to me on both compressors, Cali76 and Empress; slow attack but not the slowest, fast release but not the fastest).

Usually I use 4:1 Ratio (on my main Empress I use 4:1 and Attack at 3 o'clock, on the second is 2:1 with scooped mids and the Attack is at 1 o'clock), but on Cali76 I like 6:1 Ratio.

PS. I play in two bands, one is a progressive metalcore band, the second is a nu-metal hip-hop band (I'm a funk guy, but now I play metal and in the past I played jazz with the romanian/armenian jazz piano player: Harry Tavitian), finger style and slap (I'm a slap maniac, and I don't like the sound, I don't find it percussive enough with the slowest attack and fastest release, at 3 o'clock is the sweet point for me for the slow Attack/fast Release on Cali76, and 3 o'clock for Attack and 10 o'clock for Release on Empress).

 

[Bob_Ross]

fwiw I rarely think about Attack or Release in absolute time units (other than to understand how the potentiometers are calibrated in gross, ballpark range terms). It's immaterial to me whether the time is 1.5mS or 1.1mS etc. ...because the tempo of the music is going to dictate how fast or slow the Attack and Release times need to be.

Which is a meticulous approach to take when you're the engineer on a recording session, but absolutely sucks donkey balls when you're trying to find a setting that works for your band's entire 60 minute 13-song set!

So back in the day when I did use a compressor in my live onstage rig, I always just set Attack and Release to "auto"

That is just one reason (out of several) why I no longer use a compressor in my stage rig: The right sound for your driving hard rock tune won't be right for your power ballad, or for your slap&pop funkfest, or for your cocktail hour jazz set, or...

 

[becosfx]

However ... there are some things that just don't fit in that theory.
1) the Cali76 TX-L has ultra-short attack. Yet it sounds better than all my other comps. I don't know why that is the case.
2) sometimes the "plop" I get with 20-30ms attack emphasises the note and thus the bass line, but it can sound artificial, not very musical. And I can't predict in which scenario this will happen. Drives me nuts. Usually changing the comp in question to a Keeley Pro solves it.
3) There are significant differences when using "compressor limiter" devices as opposed to "compressor sustainer" devices which also affect attack and release. I usually avoid compressor sustainer devices.

I think your observations are correct, and it's always best to rely on your ear first when setting any device. You could check the numbers afterward and try to evaluate more objectively. FET compressor designs often come with ultra-short attack times, some reaching only 5ms even on their "slow" setting, which isn't slow in absolute terms, though it's all subjective. They also tend to emphasize frequencies below 100 Hz and above 10 kHz by as much as +6 dB (we measured that). This is accompanied by phase shifts in those bands, which at speaker level can translate into added coloration. On top of that, the inherent distortion at higher ratio (or stronger signals) from such fast attack behavior adds to the "character" many players like. FET compressors will sound different from other types, by design.

It’s no surprise that many players use multiple compressors or switch between them depending on the context. Studios do the same, keeping several compressor types available for the same reason. As you also pointed out, some devices may help solve what others introduce, and probably the other way around too. For example, real longer attack times are not easily available with FET designs. That makes them less suitable for percussive playing, where letting those 10–30ms transients through can make the difference in sound. This is where soft-envelope optical or VCA designs that avoid distortions even on short attack times can make up for that. To each, their own, right?

I don't like the slowest attack and fastest release on my comps (I don't have a good feel when I play with the slowest attack and the fastest release, but at 3 o'clock is perfect to me on both compressors, Cali76 and Empress; slow attack but not the slowest, fast release but not the fastest).

That’s why it’s best to have a good range of timings to choose from. It’s what makes one device more versatile than another, even if it means a bit of tweaking that some players might not want to deal with. Good thing there’s plenty of gear to choose from (one-two-three, or plenty knobs and switches). None are best at everything, but each might be what a particular player needs.

So back in the day when I did use a compressor in my live onstage rig, I always just set Attack and Release to "auto"

Including those with auto timing options

 

[HalfManHalfBass]

I think your observations are correct, and it's always best to rely on your ear first when setting any device. You could check the numbers afterward and try to evaluate more objectively. FET compressor designs often come with ultra-short attack times, some reaching only 5ms even on their "slow" setting, which isn't slow in absolute terms, though it's all subjective. They also tend to emphasize frequencies below 100 Hz and above 10 kHz by as much as +6 dB (we measured that). This is accompanied by phase shifts in those bands, which at speaker level can translate into added coloration. On top of that, the inherent distortion at higher ratio (or stronger signals) from such fast attack behavior adds to the "character" many players like. FET compressors will sound different from other types, by design.

It’s no surprise that many players use multiple compressors or switch between them depending on the context. Studios do the same, keeping several compressor types available for the same reason. As you also pointed out, some devices may help solve what others introduce, and probably the other way around too. For example, real longer attack times are not easily available with FET designs. That makes them less suitable for percussive playing, where letting those 10–30ms transients through can make the difference in sound. This is where soft-envelope optical or VCA designs that avoid distortions even on short attack times can make up for that. To each, their own, right?


That’s why it’s best to have a good range of timings to choose from. It’s what makes one device more versatile than another, even if it means a bit of tweaking that some players might not want to deal with. Good thing there’s plenty of gear to choose from (one-two-three, or plenty knobs and switches). None are best at everything, but each might be what a particular player needs.


Including those with auto timing options

I don't remember what the actual timings are but on both my CompIQ Mini and Stella compressors I leave the timing switch permanently on the fast setting.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

please fill in the blanks appropriately
View attachment 7268943

You dont need a sarcasm emoji do ya.

 

[micguy]

You dont need a sarcasm emoji do ya.

More sophomoric than sarcastic, if you ask me.....