Double Bass How I get a bigger sound?

[Jason Sypher]

Timely, Chris. I was just thinking yesterday, what is the optimal point to start switching to a different string because of the lost resonance (choked sound) as I climb the fingerboard. I use D’Addario orchestral mediums. They bow well and have that mellow “European sound” I here on a lot of albums, but the A and E choke out around the D and A respectively.

For me, bowing issues are often, not always, about my technique. Of course strings matter, but I’ve found ways to address choking, particularly on the E and A in thumb positions. I used to never be able to get clear notes above thumb on those strings but I just kept working on them. Slowly I started to gain control and get them to sing.

 

[Sam Reese]

This has been discussed at length on this site. There is an argument for this because some of the great soloists find it useful for very high pitches but others don't. In the lower parts of the neck it's like training wheels. Like I said: JMO.

I disagree. Dave Pomeroy stressed to me the importance of a well placed "first fret" tone marker and said it's worth the money to have it on the bass. He emphasized how difficult it can be nailing the pitch recording. I'd have to err in his favor for "street cred".

 

[Jason Sypher]

I disagree. Dave Pomeroy stressed to me the importance of a well placed "first fret" tone marker and said it's worth the money to have it on the bass. He emphasized how difficult it can be nailing the pitch recording. I'd have to err in his favor for "street cred".

First fret? Meaning a dot where? On the F? We shouldn’t pivot to a dot debate probably , there’s people who like them and people who don’t. I can’t imagine having them because I think it would mess me up! But I never heard of a first-fret dot.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I disagree. Dave Pomeroy stressed to me the importance of a well placed "first fret" tone marker and said it's worth the money to have it on the bass. He emphasized how difficult it can be nailing the pith recording. I'd have to err in his favor for "street cred".

Dave Pomeroy is a good player but this is something I've never seen and on my bass have no need for.

 

[Lee Moses]

I disagree. Dave Pomeroy stressed to me the importance of a well placed "first fret" tone marker and said it's worth the money to have it on the bass. He emphasized how difficult it can be nailing the pitch recording. I'd have to err in his favor for "street cred".

If it helps him, great. But how many of us even look at our left hand when we are in half or first position?

 

[Jason Sypher]

If it helps him, great. But how many of us even look at our left hand when we are in half or first position?

This is the great debate isn’t it? And I check myself when I criticize this kind of thing. But I have to jokingly ask, why not line our fingerboard then. Why not line cellos, violas and violins?! Surely it will help us…or will it. Is it possible that we lose more than we gain? I look at my hand when I need to, we all do, but isn’t it just amazing to learn the way we do, by listening?? We could just fret up and be done with it but every good player knows that we sharpen some notes on purpose, flatten others, and that is constantly in flux depending on what is happening around us. Edgar threw the whole bass world into tizzy with those damn dots he clearly doesn’t need at all! If you watch him closely, slow down any video you can see him making tiny corrections the whole time. What was this thread about again? Ha. Oh, getting a big sound. You’ll get a big sound if you hit the right notes and work the resonances of your bass.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Timely, Chris. I was just thinking yesterday, what is the optimal point to start switching to a different string because of the lost resonance (choked sound) as I climb the fingerboard. I use D’Addario orchestral mediums. They bow well and have that mellow “European sound” I here on a lot of albums, but the A and E choke out around the D and A respectively.

I can’t speak to the arco piece of this puzzle. But in terms of pizz, strings that choke out early are an absolute no-fly for me, and a recipe for right hand fatigue if not possible injury over time.

I am following the bowing discussions closely here, though, usually without comment. But since the subject opened, I wonder about what sort of strings/setup I’ll need for an arco bass when I retire and take up the study of the bow properly. At the U, Bel Cantos are pretty much the norm for the classical students these days, but I know they are pretty heavily dampened. The arco sounds I am most drawn to can be exemplified by two monster players on different ends of the spectrum: Joel Quarrington, and Garcia Fons. No idea about their strings or setup.

 

[Sam Reese]

Sorry about that. I think big sound comes from the marriage of listening, both hands and a due diligence to adjust technique on the fly. (FWIW I have no idea why I veered off course on this thread)

 

[Matthijs]

This Mingus video is great for a lot of reasons but it gives a lot of clear shots of his right hand technique. If I was looking for a big sound, I'd start here:

This video made my day great music and an audience that dances to jazz and recognizes the humor in that sax battle without someone on the stage waving and pulling faces to tell them.

 

[bassmanbrent]

The arco sounds I am most drawn to can be exemplified by two monster players on different ends of the spectrum: Joel Quarrington, and Garcia Fons. No idea about their strings or setup.

JQ plays on Dominants (or used to, for sure) and RGF plays on Spirocores, so you're already there

 

[Ben Street]

Basses always sound very different out front. Experiment a bit with other basses when you can. Play their basses and let them play yours. Walk around when someone is playing your bass. Observe the differences from the playing position, side, behind, out front. Experiment with you bag of pizz approaches. Make sure your strings aren’t too high and that you play through the string. Experiment with how hard you pizz, try playing from your quietest to your loudest. Don’t over play. Coax sound, don’t force sound. Make sure your playing in tune and that your left hand is in a direct relationship with your sound, your hands are a team, they draw sound together. Experiment with long tones leading from one into the other. Keep the bass vibrating. Does your body touch the bass unnecessarily anywhere? Think resonance with every aspect of your playing. Lastly play in tune. Out of tune playing kills resonance.

Wow! This is amazing advice

 

[Sam Sherry]

Wow! This is amazing advice

Greetings from sunny Portland, Maine, Mr. Street.
Welcome and thanks for all the music.

 

[Paps]

This is the great debate isn’t it? And I check myself when I criticize this kind of thing. But I have to jokingly ask, why not line our fingerboard then. Why not line cellos, violas and violins?! Surely it will help us…or will it. Is it possible that we lose more than we gain? I look at my hand when I need to, we all do, but isn’t it just amazing to learn the way we do, by listening?? We could just fret up and be done with it but every good player knows that we sharpen some notes on purpose, flatten others, and that is constantly in flux depending on what is happening around us. Edgar threw the whole bass world into tizzy with those damn dots he clearly doesn’t need at all! If you watch him closely, slow down any video you can see him making tiny corrections the whole time. What was this thread about again? Ha. Oh, getting a big sound. You’ll get a big sound if you hit the right notes and work the resonances of your bass.

-1!
I'm not proud of it, but I regularly check the position of my left hand, especially when playing in Orchestra.
My visual consists of strips of blue insulating tape superglued to the E side of the fingerboard.
I think the difference between the bass and the higher pitched instruments is that it can be difficult to hear.
I have trouble hearing myself in the section of the Orchestra, and when the bass is tuned properly, I take an occasional glance to make sure I'm in the ball park.
My teacher hates this, but I don't get enough time to practice to reach that level of precision.
My desk partner has now done the same. I also have white dotes on the g, d, 2g harmonics, as well as the high c on the G string.

 

[Ben Street]

Greetings from sunny Portland, Maine, Mr. Street.
Welcome and thanks for all the music.

Hi Sam,
Thanks for the welcome. Lots of info around here, seems amazing.
I like "Inadvertent Microtonalist"..... Good to hear someone can still afford to live in Portland!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Basses always sound very different out front.

This is so true. I played at the National Flute Assoc. festival last year and loaned my bass to a player for a chamber flute orchestra piece performed in a pretty large hotel meeting room. I listened from the back and my bass was loud and present. I was happily surprised as I've never considered it a loud instrument, and certainly not from the playing position. Our long sound waves develop energy as they travel.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I played as part of a "swing band" for a senior prom over the weekend, which was actually pretty fun. The rhythm section from the school asked if they could sit in, and I let the bass kid play my bass which I normally don't do and went out front to listen. The kid didn't play very well, but I was quite happy with the sound of the bass. It really is different out front.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I have a nice bass and a decent technique, but I find I have to put in a lot of physical effort to get s big pizz sound. I have Evah Pirazzi strings which I like because they bow well. I switched from spiros because I wanted to work on my arco sound and the spiros were too unforgiving. A couple of years in, my arco sound has improved. When I’m in a room with other bassists, my sound feels thin compared to theirs. There is a Shen SB 1000 which sounds amazing, a Kay that is a cannon, and 19th century French that is also a powerhouse. My instrument is a 2011 carved Bjorn Stoll Milano. I have a summer and winter soundpost that I have switched out appropriately. My bass has fantastic clarity, but I’m looking for an instrument that produces a big, round sound without so much effort. My question is could different strings be the ticket? I had my instrument set up at David Gage recently, and I played some more expensive basses but nothing grabbed me. They are fans of my bass and claim they would have no problem selling it on consignment. I like my bass and would like to keep it if there is a way to make the sound bigger. Perhaps that’s just not possible and it’s not the right bass for me. I’ve had it for 11 years and learned how to play the DB with it. Appreciate your thoughts. Here’s a sample of the sound.

Update: I put new strings on last week (Perpetuals and Stark on D and G). The two year old Evahs I had were pretty dead it turns out. The sound is definitely bigger. Also, I’ve been practicing outside and it’s a big plus. It’s just different. You are forced to play differently. I did a busking session last week and realized immediately I had to be more economical with my notes and more efficient. I’m excited to keep playing outside as long as it’s tenable.

 

[damonsmith]

Update: I put new strings on last week (Perpetuals and Stark on D and G). The two year old Evahs I had were pretty dead it turns out. The sound is definitely bigger. Also, I’ve been practicing outside and it’s a big plus. It’s just different. You are forced to play differently. I did a busking session last week and realized immediately I had to be more economical with my notes and more efficient. I’m excited to keep playing outside as long as it’s tenable.

When looking for a sound that actually projects, Spiros and gut get the job done best.