Double Bass How I get a bigger sound?

[Alexis Duntov]

I have a nice bass and a decent technique, but I find I have to put in a lot of physical effort to get s big pizz sound. I have Evah Pirazzi strings which I like because they bow well. I switched from spiros because I wanted to work on my arco sound and the spiros were too unforgiving. A couple of years in, my arco sound has improved. When I’m in a room with other bassists, my sound feels thin compared to theirs. There is a Shen SB 1000 which sounds amazing, a Kay that is a cannon, and 19th century French that is also a powerhouse. My instrument is a 2011 carved Bjorn Stoll Milano. I have a summer and winter soundpost that I have switched out appropriately. My bass has fantastic clarity, but I’m looking for an instrument that produces a big, round sound without so much effort. My question is could different strings be the ticket? I had my instrument set up at David Gage recently, and I played some more expensive basses but nothing grabbed me. They are fans of my bass and claim they would have no problem selling it on consignment. I like my bass and would like to keep it if there is a way to make the sound bigger. Perhaps that’s just not possible and it’s not the right bass for me. I’ve had it for 11 years and learned how to play the DB with it. Appreciate your thoughts. Here’s a sample of the sound.

 

[Jay Corwin]

Have you let others play it so you can stand back and get a real idea of what your bass sounds like?

 

[Earl]

I bet your bass amplifies well though. My bass has a 'big round sound' and is a bear to amplify. Maybe try some EP slaps which bow okay and could round out the sound.

 

[damonsmith]

In your right hand, you can get more power if you use more arm and less fingers until you need the speed of fiingers. Sprios or gut are going to be a lot louder and clearer than any other string. I don't recommend this everyone, but I recommend two things:
1. Spiro solos
2. Play outside
Getting to the sound you want without any walls to bounce off really gets you a bigger sound. The solos with will give you what you want arco while still giving you the punch you are missing. Some say the lower tension on the top makes the fundamental speak more clearly as well.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Basses always sound very different out front. Experiment a bit with other basses when you can. Play their basses and let them play yours. Walk around when someone is playing your bass. Observe the differences from the playing position, side, behind, out front. Experiment with you bag of pizz approaches. Make sure your strings aren’t too high and that you play through the string. Experiment with how hard you pizz, try playing from your quietest to your loudest. Don’t over play. Coax sound, don’t force sound. Make sure your playing in tune and that your left hand is in a direct relationship with your sound, your hands are a team, they draw sound together. Experiment with long tones leading from one into the other. Keep the bass vibrating. Does your body touch the bass unnecessarily anywhere? Think resonance with every aspect of your playing. Lastly play in tune. Out of tune playing kills resonance.

 

[dylanjohnson]

Do those basses sound bigger when you play them, or is that the impression you are getting in a room?

 

[Bruce Calin]

+1 for having someone else play your bass and you listen from a distance. I was at an orchestra rehearsal a few days ago playing a loud brassy piece and could barely hear myself at all. The asst. conductor was walking around the room listening and said to the whole group,"I can hear the basses(two of us) laying down the rhythm and you should all be listening to them". Say what?? It just goes to show once again that we are often in the worst place to actually hear ourselves.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Sounds good to me from the video, but i can tell you're digging in. Technique aside, different strings might help or might not. A lighter or heavier set could achieve a better sound more efficiently with less effort, depending on how the bass reacts. You just don't know till you try. You can also work one on one with a luthier to see if any setup adjusts can be made to improve the situation as well.

 

[AGCurry]

We all have our conceptions of how a bass should sound. Your bass has a nice clear sound, and I'm assuming that you like its sound when bowed, but you'd like to hear more punch/boom when pizzed. As a result, it looks like you are, in a sense, fighting the instrument, trying to force it to comply. The problem is that, past a certain point, plucking harder doesn't increase a string's core sound - but it does increase noise, so the core sound actually recedes relative to the whole. Playing in an orchestra, I'm always pleasantly surprised to find that a pizz passage is heard well, even when played softly. That's a clue.

It's possible that the Evah Pirazzis are exhibiting that "loudness compression" that others have reported, but they are not low-volume strings. In fact (as @damonsmith wrote), guts and Spirocores are the only real choices for significantly-greater volume. Are you prepared to go down the seemingly-endless-and-expensive string search?

It may be that a different bass is in your future, but the fact that you've tried some higher-end instruments without being impressed is telling. I might suggest a second bass, not a replacement, for nonclassical purposes. Doesn't have to be expensive! My pizz bass is the lowest rung of KC Strings carved basses; it has that punch/boom but doesn't do the singing higher frequencies of my more expensive basses. Put some gut strings on it, relax, and smile while you're playing it!

 

[crd]

I 2nd what @damonsmith says. From your video and the way you are playing, I think you might like a string with less tension. Sometimes this can darken up a bass and help it project.

A couple of other suggestions: make sure you are hanging with drums a couple times a week. Nothing replaces the experience of playing with drums. You're body and ears will find the way of least resistance to cut through if you keeping throwing yourself up against a good drum sound.

Long tones pizz can help. I always played my scales very slow with the bow but lately I've been playing slow scales using my end of night, use my hand like a claw, top volume free jazz, pizz approach and it's instructive.

Also, do you have a bass player who you'd like to sound similar to? We always want to sound like ourselves (whatever that means) but I think there is so much to be gained by transcribing your favorite players. Not so much to steal there vocab but to try and finger out how they are getting the sound they are getting. Make the solos you choose to transcribe a personal thing and try to get as close to there sound as you can. Getting the notes is just step one. Seeing what bassist played before amps can teach you a lot about what works and doesn't work in the context of a jazz group.

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Have you let others play it so you can stand back and get a real idea of what your bass sounds like?

It’s a a good experiment and yes I have done that. More importantly, I have noticed the difference when I play other basses. They just feel louder.

 

[BobDeRosa]

I think you sound great. As others have said, it might be a simple matter of where you're standing in relation to the sound you're producing. Have you tried playing into the corner of a room? I think that gives you a better idea about how you sound to others. Don't change a thing except for trying to get more volume out of a lighter touch -- maybe more arm weight and less finger pressure. Cole Davis did a YouTube video on getting a big sound, but he might have taken it down because I can't find it. In it, he says pulling the strings should involve no more pressure than petting a cat, and while I have some questions about this, his sound is immense.

 

[crd]

I think you sound great. As others have said, it might be a simple matter of where you're standing in relation to the sound you're producing. Have you tried playing into the corner of a room? I think that gives you a better idea about how you sound to others. Don't change a thing except for trying to get more volume out of a lighter touch -- maybe more arm weight and less finger pressure. Cole Davis did a YouTube video on getting a big sound, but he might have taken it down because I can't find it. In it, he says pulling the strings should involve no more pressure than petting a cat, and while I have some questions about this, his sound is immense.

Sorry for the off topic aside but does he really get an immense sound? On a quick google search The first thing I find of him is him getting drowned out by an unplugged hollow body electric guitar ...

(For reference here I am playing acoustic with a quintet long ago when I was chasing the big sound thing cause its kind of a cheap shot to comment on other's playing without sharing something yourself. Not my favorite clip of myself but it's the only one that comes up on YouTube of me fully acoustic. Also, Charles Owens kills it.)

 

[Wasnex]

There are several ways that our perceptions can be inaccurate. So, the first thing I suggest is having a third party compare your tone and volume to the others.

I also think you need to engage in some introspection and try to develop an honest appraisal of your natural abilities versus and you current capabilities. What each person can bring to the stage is related to their physiology and the way their brain works. So you need to develop realistic expectations for what you can achieve and how much effort will be required to get there.

Another person may be able to pull a bigger sound and make it look easy. The instrument and setup certainly have an impact, but so does the player's physical and mental characteristics. This means you may have to work harder to produce similar results. It can also mean you can't realistically compete with them on this factor; but perhaps there are other areas where you excel and they struggle. It's pretty rare to meet people who excel at everything.

Here is what I think about my abilities. My level of strength versus size is above average. However, my endurance is below average, so I have to use the strength judiciously. I think my dexterity and left/right coordination is above average for the population, but not really on the level of a top musician. I am also pretty sure I have some degree of ADD, which limits my ability to focus and train to overcome whatever physical and mental limitations I may have.

I still managed to develop to a level where I had a reasonably successful and satisfying professional career. But a big part of that was having the luck to find and be hired for a job that benefitted from my unique mix of talents.

 

[Leigh_D]

Basses always sound very different out front.

My teacher was transporting a 5-figure bass for a luthier and at my lesson he let me try it. It played very nicely and then my teacher said go stand over there by the stairs (20 feet away). At that distance it was abundantly clear why it was a 5-figure bass.

**Leigh

 

[BobDeRosa]

Sorry for the off topic aside but does he really get an immense sound? On a quick google search The first thing I find of him is him getting drowned out by an unplugged hollow body electric guitar ...

(For reference here I am playing acoustic with a quintet long ago when I was chasing the big sound thing cause its kind of a cheap shot to comment on other's playing without sharing something yourself. Not my favorite clip of myself but it's the only one that comes up on YouTube of me fully acoustic. Also, Charles Owens kills it.)

I believe Cole's volume and tone are a product of poor mic placement, and probably just a cell phone mic as well. On the other hand, you sound excellent!

 

[crd]

I believe Cole's volume and tone are a product of poor mic placement, and probably just a cell phone mic as well. On the other hand, you sound excellent!

He seems to have great chops! Volume isn't everything but he isn't who I would check out if I wanted to sound bigger. There is a point where you can choke the bass by playing too hard but a lot of the bass players we associate with big sounds played "hard" with a lot of meat on the string. They also didn't spend a lot of time living in thump position. Sorry for the aside...

The op seems to have a nice bass. He could maybe get what he is looking for out of a new instrument, but I would explore everything I could technique wise before I went through the trouble of buying a new bass.

 

[LowG]

I have noticed the difference when I play other basses. They just feel louder.

Interesting that none of the basses at Gage’s had this quality you’re seeking, but I think you have your answer right here. Basses all sound different and strings only do so much to the inherent tone of the bass.

Try gut strings and the appropriate setup. If that doesn’t get you there then you need a different instrument. Your bass does sound really good, but it’s obviously not the sound in your head or you wouldn’t be asking this question. If it was your technique you wouldn’t like these other basses more.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Sorry for the off topic aside but does he really get an immense sound? On a quick google search The first thing I find of him is him getting drowned out by an unplugged hollow body electric guitar ...

(For reference here I am playing acoustic with a quintet long ago when I was chasing the big sound thing cause its kind of a cheap shot to comment on other's playing without sharing something yourself. Not my favorite clip of myself but it's the only one that comes up on YouTube of me fully acoustic. Also, Charles Owens kills it.)

Hello from RVA! Charles Owens is amazing...

 

[Alexis Duntov]

Interesting that none of the basses at Gage’s had this quality you’re seeking, but I think you have your answer right here. Basses all sound different and strings only do so much to the inherent tone of the bass.

Try gut strings and the appropriate setup. If that doesn’t get you there then you need a different instrument. Your bass does sound really good, but it’s obviously not the sound in your head or you wouldn’t be asking this question. If it was your technique you wouldn’t like these other basses more.

I think that’s right. I have a crush on this Shen SB100, which is a cheaper instrument than mine. I’m going to experiment with some other strings and then if that doesn’t work I’ll look into a new bass.