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How important are personal beliefs in bands?
- Thread starter Catbuster
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Is this work or play to you? If it's work, leave them at the door on the way in, pick them up again when you clock out. People believe different things. (If you were being asked to play a benefit gig for OWS, that's a different thing, of course.)
If play, then it's totally up to you, no point hanging out with people you don't enjoy hanging out with.
+1
Baron, what you are touching on is what I call "self responsibility." People just don't like that dang notion of self responsibility! They don't like saying to themselves "gee, I'm the one that caused all of that with my choice of words." It's alot more comforting to just blame someone else, when in reality, the person should blame themself. Can you imagine if we lived in a world where everyone actually exercised self responsibility? Here's what it would sound like in the OP's post: "hey TB'ers, guess what I did......I screwed up and spewed my political opinion upon a group of musicians, and I caused the failure of the band as a result. I learned a good lesson and I wanted to share it with you so we can all learn from my error."
It takes a very open (and secure) mind to think like that.
Baron, it didn't make me angry getting angry at someone I'll most likely never meet over the Internet would be stupid.
But the question was 'how important are personal belief, and did I do the right thing.' The first required a more thorough answer than yes or no. 'Did I do the right thing?' was a yes or no question. That's unarguable as I didn't ask for you opinion on it. All I gave was a very watered down view of OWS when asked about it. He was the one who didn't act with tact.
I gave them five days to find a replacement. Five days, in my experience, has been plenty of time to find a replacement.
As far as religions go, I could care less. I could also care less about what you believe in politics. What I will not deal with, however, is being called an uninformed idiot. Thin skin or not, I won't put up with that.
It just occurred to me that I sound like a passive aggressive @$$. If I am, I'm sorry. If that's clouding your view, I'm sorry.
But the question was 'how important are personal belief, and did I do the right thing.' The first required a more thorough answer than yes or no. 'Did I do the right thing?' was a yes or no question. That's unarguable as I didn't ask for you opinion on it. All I gave was a very watered down view of OWS when asked about it. He was the one who didn't act with tact.
I gave them five days to find a replacement. Five days, in my experience, has been plenty of time to find a replacement.
As far as religions go, I could care less. I could also care less about what you believe in politics. What I will not deal with, however, is being called an uninformed idiot. Thin skin or not, I won't put up with that.
It just occurred to me that I sound like a passive aggressive @$$. If I am, I'm sorry. If that's clouding your view, I'm sorry.
You said...
He said...
I said...
Free speech is a two way street. Why would you leave a band when a band member takes advantage of the same rights as you did?
IMO, since you don't accord others the same rights as you exercise, you are beyond a right wind conservative.
FYI: as this is a political thread, it will be closed soon enough.
He said...
I said...
Free speech is a two way street. Why would you leave a band when a band member takes advantage of the same rights as you did?
No.
IMO, since you don't accord others the same rights as you exercise, you are beyond a right wind conservative.
FYI: as this is a political thread, it will be closed soon enough.
Stumbo,
Yes, but I never said he was an idiot, correct? Freedom of speech is great, but I was raised to have respect for those around you. He asked, I answered as politely as I could, and then he went off on moi.
Yes, but I never said he was an idiot, correct? Freedom of speech is great, but I was raised to have respect for those around you. He asked, I answered as politely as I could, and then he went off on moi.
Nobody likes to be called an idiot. That was his way of communicating that his political opinion differed from yours. He chose an unpolite, disrespectful way of saying it.
It sure is hard to find mature musicians... actually, it's hard to find mature people anymore with enough respect to listen to an alternate point of view that does not match their own.
Sadder still are the people that come to their point of view because someone else (their parents or a famous personality, etc... has it)
Even Sadder still are those who don't even know what their chosen position even means. I see people crying socialism and fascism all the time about current politics and they use those terms interchangeably as if they mean the same thing.
But perhaps the saddest of all is that some of those same people are news reporters and politicians with college degrees... some of them from ivy league schools.
Sadder still are the people that come to their point of view because someone else (their parents or a famous personality, etc... has it)
Even Sadder still are those who don't even know what their chosen position even means. I see people crying socialism and fascism all the time about current politics and they use those terms interchangeably as if they mean the same thing.
But perhaps the saddest of all is that some of those same people are news reporters and politicians with college degrees... some of them from ivy league schools.
I'm gonna have to say, yes you have a right to you opinion, but quite frankly, if what you said here was indicative of what you said in rehearsal (or wherever this happened) , if I was a supporter of OWS, I would find it pretty offensive, and it would be perfectly understandable for someone to go off on you like that. You chose to insult and ridicule the OWS movement instead of trying to engender honest and civilized debate. If someone was offended at what you said and went off on you, IMO, you asked for it.
If that's not cut and dried enough for you, then yes, you were wrong, on a number of levels.
If that's not cut and dried enough for you, then yes, you were wrong, on a number of levels.
Perfect! Besides the global political effect, imagine how much marital discord could be avoided. Viva Utopia!
But in reality, it looks like we still have a lot of evolving to do.
I personally wouldn't have quit a band over it. My attitude is that as (theoretically) mature adults in a working situation, you have to "agree to disagree".
Stumbo said:Possibly expressing your beliefs were just as offensive to him.
Expressing beliefs when asked and calling someone an idiot are not the same. Sadly some guys even get rich off it and they're just no-talent schlubs. Bill Maher, just a failed, horrible actor/comedian shooting his gate off, thinks he's an expert in everything and just calls opposing opinions stupid. Other blathering pundits exist on the other side too.
Yes, op you should have skirted the issue. Being professional goes both ways, he wasn't pro, calling you an idiot, so he didn't deserve professional treatment from you. Come on guys people walk off the job all the time. You think because its a band, it should be different? Poppycock; that is assuming op's story went down as he claims.
I don't really care about my bandmates' feelings on religion,politics or anything really, outside of music.
I mean,it's a band,not the friggin' McLaughlin Group!
That said,your guy could have toned down the rhetoric. No reason to quit tho.
I mean,it's a band,not the friggin' McLaughlin Group!
That said,your guy could have toned down the rhetoric. No reason to quit tho.
You're an entertainer. Ideally, personal beliefs are irrelevant in the context of a band. There's really no reason to bring them up. I've played in bands with evangelical Christians, and I have never had a conversation about religion with them, even when they decline to play a song I like because of its content. (I am areligious.)
BTW, also irrelevant, I agree with your perspective on the occupy groups.
BTW, also irrelevant, I agree with your perspective on the occupy groups.
It's called a dialogue. That's an exchange of ideas. Your guitar player perceived your comments to be dismissive of the #OWS movement, and was dismissive in response. You have every right to say what you want. But you don't have the right to not be offended by what someone else says.
As for the issue itself? It's certainly much bigger and more complicated than "It's Wall Street's fault" VS "These hippies need to get a job". The more mature discussion between you and your guitarist might have been far different if you would BOTH scratch a little bit beneath the surface.
I think you're far more likely to be working with musicians who are of a more liberal mindset than musicians who are of a similar mind to you. That just seems to be the prevailing mindset within the arts. And it's part of the broader picture of being an easy person to work with. If something as trivial as this is going to set you off and make you quit a few days before a gig? I certainly wouldn't want to hire you.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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First of all band members need to show respect to each other. If they call you an uninformed idiot that is just wrong. Second the occupy movement has turned into a criminal movement. It is no longer about left or right, they just want to break the law.
having been in death metal bands where you usually end up with a guy who believe that Pro-Wrestling and the lyrics in metal are real, i have had bandmates quit because they thought i wasn't "metal" enough; being "metal enough" usually means believing in nihilism, fascism, nazism, and satanism.
and i have stayed in bands where the lyrics were about satanism, devil worship, end of the world, etc. Stuff i do not believe in, but stayed because ive always thought metal was like a horror movie - on a basic level, it has to be scary and full of cool riffs.
the part where i draw the line, where i possibly would quit a metal band, when the lyrics are about raping and abusing women and children. i know it could be comical, like a cheap slasher movie - i still do not want any part of it... and to be honest, i really do not think highly of someone whose favorite subject matter involves a stronger person hurting someone smaller and weaker. There is just no plot to it, and it is distasteful.
having said that, my answer to the TS'es topic is:
Yes, it matters ... to a certain extent, especially if it affects the music. but if its something outside of music, like religion, and politics. Nope, it does not matter, as long as the lyrics avoid the subject matter we couldnt compromise on.
and i have stayed in bands where the lyrics were about satanism, devil worship, end of the world, etc. Stuff i do not believe in, but stayed because ive always thought metal was like a horror movie - on a basic level, it has to be scary and full of cool riffs.
the part where i draw the line, where i possibly would quit a metal band, when the lyrics are about raping and abusing women and children. i know it could be comical, like a cheap slasher movie - i still do not want any part of it... and to be honest, i really do not think highly of someone whose favorite subject matter involves a stronger person hurting someone smaller and weaker. There is just no plot to it, and it is distasteful.
having said that, my answer to the TS'es topic is:
Yes, it matters ... to a certain extent, especially if it affects the music. but if its something outside of music, like religion, and politics. Nope, it does not matter, as long as the lyrics avoid the subject matter we couldnt compromise on.
+1 Just like at work.......keep your views on these topic to yourself and you will have a long fruitful relationships.
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