How is Cliff Burton overrated?

[bommer]

he is not over rated whatsoever, he is a bass god
R.I.P. Cliff

 

[Session1969]

Cliff played in the biggest metal band on earth on the most universally appreciated albums of their discography. His bass playing skills aside, that by itself is plenty fuel to generate fanboys and inspire people to play bass.

Who the **** cares if he's sloppy. That's merely the human element in listening to music. When things are perfectly timed to a metronome it sounds robotic and fake.


Personally Cliff never really inspired me much. Sure Orion was cool but I didn't think of it as cool from a bass point of view. Just in general. I liked it as much as I liked other metal instrumentals from that time like Inquisition Symphony or Call of Ktulu.

You want to talk about a metal bassist that I ****ing noticed right off the bat? Steve Harris.

Cliff was often buried in the mix. Not Steve.

Steve is alot higher in the mix and doesn't shape his tone to sound like a "bassy" guitar the way Cliff did is all. Steve is a stronger influence of mine but Cliff is held in very regard in my book as well. He helped create a new form of rock in much the same way Maiden did.

 

[sethlow3]

I don't see how something becomes a guitar just by playing with distortion. Or becomes a guitar by taking a solo.

You know, there are classical bass solos, too. Do those who play them suddenly become guitarists?

I'm not trying to say Burton was the best bassist ever, or anything so silly as that (the phrase itself is rather ridiculous, IMO... there is no best when it comes to music), but to say he was crap or whatever I think is pretty ludicrous.

I totally agree that playing something with fuzz doesn't make it a guitar. I owned a fuzz and loved it. I just didn't like the fuzz tone on those recordings. They had no bottom, hence the other opinions that agree that it sounds like a guitar. I love the attack goat bass fuzz and want one really bad. I play with distortion effects on my keyboard synth all the time now.

It's all in the timbre. REAL TIME PROOF IN POINT: The tone and sound on "anesthesia" just made my girlfriend walk in the room and ask "what guitar player is that? he's awful!"

I did know there are classical bass solos! I used to play Bach and Caprices everyday. Playing them didn't suddenly make me a guitarist which is a good thing IMHO.

I'm glad I didn't say Burton was crap either. If you'll read my other posts. I said "I like what he brought to Metallica". I still think he was Metallica's best bass player.

Do I think he's overrated? Absolutely. There are a million threads on him and little attention given to greats like Bobby Vega, James Jamerson, etc... It seems like everyone I know in the metal realm seems to think Burton is the best thing ever. Is he good! yes! overrated? In my experience? yes!

 

[Herrick]

For those complaining about the bad sound on the Day on the Green clip, that Funkytoe mentioned, here's a recording of a performance from the same year where the bass is pretty easy to hear:

Metallica - For Whom the Bell Tolls Live 1985 - YouTube

Not the most technical thing ever, but it's cool to be able to hear the little fills he does.

That was very That's how the bass should have sounded like on the album. Thanks for posting.

 

[CauliColin]

The third happiest day of my bass-playing life was replicating Cliff's tone in Ride The Lightning... he is my idol, but I like to think I am not obsessed.
I LIKE to think...

 

[Clammy]

Metallica - Hall of Fame Induction - Cliff Burton Pt. 2 - YouTube

watch this video! flea is on the money! he is definatly not what some ppl call a fanboy!

andy

Wow... just, wow.

RIP Cliff.

I still wonder what Metallica would sound like now if he hadn't passed away when he did.

And, no, he's not overrated. He was a huge influence on an entire generation of heavy music players. Period.

Cheers!

 

[Korladis]

Steve is alot higher in the mix and doesn't shape his tone to sound like a "bassy" guitar the way Cliff did is all. Steve is a stronger influence of mine but Cliff is held in very regard in my book as well. He helped create a new form of rock in much the same way Maiden did.

What?

No knocking Steve Harris from me, but I'm not sure how Cliff's ensemble tone sounds anything like a "bassy guitar." The bass tracks sound like bass, with amount of overdrive differing between albums. It's not like a bit of overdrive from the amp is all that rare among rock bassists. Geezer Butler's sound was often like this, Entwistle's live sound in the late 60's/early 70's was pretty much always so. I just don't get that criticism.

Also, being too quiet in the mix is hardly a musician's fault.

 

[Korladis]

I totally agree that playing something with fuzz doesn't make it a guitar. I owned a fuzz and loved it. I just didn't like the fuzz tone on those recordings. They had no bottom, hence the other opinions that agree that it sounds like a guitar. I love the attack goat bass fuzz and want one really bad. I play with distortion effects on my keyboard synth all the time now.

It's all in the timbre. REAL TIME PROOF IN POINT: The tone and sound on "anesthesia" just made my girlfriend walk in the room and ask "what guitar player is that? he's awful!"

I did know there are classical bass solos! I used to play Bach and Caprices everyday. Playing them didn't suddenly make me a guitarist which is a good thing IMHO.

I'm glad I didn't say Burton was crap either. If you'll read my other posts. I said "I like what he brought to Metallica". I still think he was Metallica's best bass player.

Do I think he's overrated? Absolutely. There are a million threads on him and little attention given to greats like Bobby Vega, James Jamerson, etc... It seems like everyone I know in the metal realm seems to think Burton is the best thing ever. Is he good! yes! overrated? In my experience? yes!

Ah, I see. I dunno, even when fuzzed out, his tone just sounds too huge and... I dunno... organ-like to really sound much like guitar, to me.

Then again, use of really saturated distortion on bass is often a game of compromises. Too little low end and it sounds weird and thin... too much and it can get really muddy, fast.

As for being overrated, I'm of two minds about this. Overrated by all the youtube kid morons who think there's actually such a thing as a "best bassist"? Certainly. Anyone claimed to be such is overrated.

Overrated among musicians who understand that it's not a godsdamned competition? No, I don't think so. I think the backlash against aforementioned youtube idiots is actually so strong a lot of time that among experienced musicians he's often rather underrated. Or so I've seen on here. People will focus on lack of amazing technicality, while ignoring contribution to songwriting. This is, in my opinion, a great disservice.

 

[Ben Noblit]

I don't think he's overrated among the community of serious musicians, who generally rate him as second-most if not the most important metal bassist (behind Steve Harris). The overrated thing comes from the hordes of mostly juvenile metalheads who shout constantly that Cliff Burton was the greatest thing ever to touch a bass, when he wasn't even the best technical player or the most valuable player to his band in his own genre, let alone of all music ever.

Plus, claiming any musician as the "best" ever is ridiculous and completely subjective.

 

[0175westwood29]

I don't think he's overrated among the community of serious musicians, who generally rate him as second-most if not the most important metal bassist (behind Steve Harris). The overrated thing comes from the hordes of mostly juvenile metalheads who shout constantly that Cliff Burton was the greatest thing ever to touch a bass, when he wasn't even the best technical player or the most valuable player to his band in his own genre, let alone of all music ever.

Plus, claiming any musician as the "best" ever is ridiculous and completely subjective.

but is the flip side of that is surely older more experianced players thinking they know better just the same as the young lads thinking hes the best?

for me there is not a best but like an elite top three say, ive got entwhistle, burton, geezer in mine all important to electric bass. but none better than the other.

andy

 

[maturanesa]

The cause of Burton´s overrating is his successor´s limitations. People say "Cliff is a genius" because they compare with Jason Newsted...

 

[Korladis]

Which is unfair, as IMO, Jason Newsted's a pretty damn good bassist.

I really think the cause of the "overrated" thing is 14 year old metallica fans who think that there's even such a thing as a "best evar!"

Personally, music isn't a competition. Burton's one of my favorite bassists (along with Entwistle, Harris, McCartney, Butler), and I think he was quite good, but I don't believe in such a thing as "best" when it comes to music.

 

[JÄGER]

Which is unfair, as IMO, Jason Newsted's a pretty damn good bassist.

I really think the cause of the "overrated" thing is 14 year old metallica fans who think that there's even such a thing as a "best evar!"

Personally, music isn't a competition. Burton's one of my favorite bassists (along with Entwistle, Harris, McCartney, Butler), and I think he was quite good, but I don't believe in such a thing as "best" when it comes to music.

Yeah it’s better to say something is your favorite than the best, cliff burton is my favorite.

 

[zapporius]

cause he's sloppy. personally, I respect the guy. he has great feel, and when he cut loose, he was pretty melodic. but he definitely didn't sound like he practiced 6 hours a day...

Poor well drilled beat machine