How many keys are there?

[drumvsbass]

Natural, melodic, and harmonic minor all share the same key signature and are not considered "separate" keys in classical western music theory. A famous example is Beethoven's "Für Elise." There is prominent use of G# (for example the E chord in measure 3) but we don't need a special key signature for that; we just say "A Minor."

A fundamental music theory concept is that composers are 'allowed' to use accidental symbols to write notes not in the key signature. For example, you could have F#, G#, or even D# (as in the Beethoven example) and it's still 'key of A Minor.'

I know that the minors share keys, the argument here is whether we should consider that Gb and F# are somehow different. They are not. I was being cheeky with the minor suggestion.

 

[EatS1stBassist]

Of the two options, I would say 15. There are 15 "printable" key signatures that follow the harmonic series of the Circle of Fourths/Fifths (depending on which way around the circle you go). Of those, 3 sharp key signatures are enharmonic with 3 of the flat key signatures, so you are also correct that there are 12 tonally unique combinations of pitch steps produced by the Circle of Fifths. However, not knowing that a signature with 7 sharps sounds the same as a signature with 5 flats and v/v, or that the keys with 6 sharps and 6 flats also have identical actual pitch values (in equal-tempered tuning at least) can be a hindrance to reading music.

However, in terms of actual "keys", as in a defined sequence of increasing pitches making up a scale between octaves, counting even 15 barely scratches the surface. The Western key signature system can, with its 15 printable signatures, define the required sharps and flats for the major and the natural minor keys. These in turn are only 2 of 7 "modes" of a key signature (major = Ionian, minor = Aeolian), produced by taking the same sequence of sharps and flats, but starting sequentially higher. The Dorian (starts on the second scale degree of Ionian) and Mixolydian (starts on the fifth scale degree of Ionian) modes are also very important to Western music, more or less as variations of minor and major respectively, and you'll hear the other three here and there in various cultural music styles. So, 12 possible starting tones times 7 modes equals 84 tonally-unique heptatonic scales plus an additional 21 ways to print them with the enharmonic signatures, for 105 printable heptatonic scales.

These same key signatures can also be used to print music in keys that use less than 7 unique tones. The most well-known to guitarists will likely be the pentatonic scales, both major and minor (another 24 tonally-unique and 30 printable scales). You may consider these as subsets of their heptatonic keys, but there is a difference between G Major and G Major Pentatonic when you're talking about the sound of a song. There are also hexatonic scales, mostly curios of early music theory before the seventh scale degree was widely accepted, but if you're a music historian those hexatonic scales and their modes are another 72 tonally unique and 90 engraveable keys.

So, what are we up to here, 180 tonally-unique keys, 225 printable? That's only if you religiously follow the Circle of Fifths when defining key signatures. There are a host of "non-conforming" key signatures, that don't follow the circle from C when adding flats or sharps. Phrygian Dominant, very common in Eastern Mediterranean and Middle Eastern music, is one such system; relative to the Ionian mode, Phrygian Dominant has a flatted 2nd, 6th and 7th. C Phrygian Dominant therefore has a Bb, Ab, and Db, but not an Eb. It's tonally related to the harmonic minor scale, which with the same signature would start on Ab. This same harmonic system also produces the Hungarian minor scale and Ukranian Dorian scale, and another tweak, flatting only the second and 6th, produces the Byzantine scale, which for C as the starting note would have Ab and Db (no Bb or Eb).

In short, in Western music notation, the only real rule defining an engravable key is that each of the seven named notes must either be sharp, flat, or natural (as any scale system requiring more than one quality of a single named note cannot be defined wholly in the key signature). Two named notes (B and E) cannot be sharp, and the next-higher named notes cannot be flat. That means, in theory, there are 432 unique ways to assign flats and sharps to the seven named notes. You can then start on any one of those seven notes (3,024 combinations), and if we really want to get crazy you can choose any combination of 5, 6 or all 7 of those named notes to form a scale, giving the Western notation system 444,528 unique "keys". The large majority would sound incomplete, broken and/or alien to Western ears, but you could write them down in traditional Western staff notation with a key signature that clearly identifies the "usual" character of each named note.

Then, there are Middle Eastern and Subcontinental quarter-tone systems...

Wow!

 

[srbbass]

A lot of discussion on keys vs key signatures. I will say in classical music, double-flats and double-sharps are not that uncommon, even in broadway type shows. Phantom of the Opera has some cadences in E# minor (the iii chord of C# major if you are keeping score) written as E# G# B# triad (enharmonic with f minor, but keeping pure with the current key signature)

I also play this piano reduction of a symphony which grandly takes a turn into Ebb major (why not D major, not really sure in this case!):

 

[drumvsbass]

There's actually a huge difference in an F# or Gb in terms of harmonic function. F# is the leading tone in the key of G. Gb is not. E## is the leading tone (part of a dominant chord in the key of F# major or F# minor) and F-natural isn't whether they sound the same or not. Write a chart for educated, accomplished instrumentalists using V chords spelled D-Gb-A rather than D-F#-A in the key of G and you'll get some some really funny looks around the room.

How a single note functions in a key, sure. F# is the third in D major, not Gb, I get it. But the argument is whether the F# major scale is somehow different than the Gb major scale and it is not. Should I be practicing in Gb and F# as different things conceptually? Maybe people have more time on their hands. Like if I'm in Gb and someone says play the IV chord I'm not gonna be confused thinking about Cb, I'll just play a B. I dunno, playing for 33 years, and it's NEVER been important for reading or making charts in my life, EVER. They're just labels, but I really like the key of Q##.

 

[drumvsbass]

Bbb,Cb,Db,Ebb,Fb,Gb,Ab

This is a perfectly fine representation of the A major scale according to theorists.

 

[EatS1stBassist]

Bbb,Cb,Db,Ebb,Fb,Gb,Ab

This is a perfectly fine representation of the A major scale according to theorists.

 

[LBS-bass]

A lot of discussion on keys vs key signatures. I will say in classical music, double-flats and double-sharps are not that uncommon, even in broadway type shows. Phantom of the Opera has some cadences in E# minor (the iii chord of C# major if you are keeping score) written as E# G# B# triad (enharmonic with f minor, but keeping pure with the current key signature)

I also play this piano reduction of a symphony which grandly takes a turn into Ebb major (why not D major, not really sure in this case!):

View attachment 3894993

It sounds to me like a lot of people got their wrists slapped in music school for writing accidentals. So we end up with a lot of rigid thinking about what "can" and "can't" be done in different keys.

 

[rodsnhawgs]

30 is the correct answer. 15+15 adds up to 30 all day long. But...it is necessary to make it clear we're talking "western" music only. The D# issue is important only if you're talking about reading scores with keys denoted by sharp and flats in the key signature. Where that is concerned, it makes a difference, theoretically, what you call a note in a particular key.

Having said all that, playing/grooving through the changes and hitting the correct tonalities is more important than knowing if there's 12 keys, 30 keys, or if a D# is an Eb or not. It may matter among theoretically trained/educated musicians for discussion, but the music and the listener doesn't care about academics and pedagogy.

 

[2F/2F]

12 keys. 15 common key signatures. Don’t confuse music itself with written music. The “extra” three keys only exist on paper. Meaning, they are only a different way to refer to/communicate about the sounds being used.

 

[SLO Surfer]

i'd be likely to say that there are 24 keys, but 30 ways to spell them.


i voted the unique 'carrot option'... i hope i survive!

+1

 

[CatOnTheBass]

I voted 15/15 because that's what they taught me in school, but I can see where the 12/12 people are coming from too. At the end of the day, both sides are correct and it's a "what color is the dress?" type debate. Maybe I should have voted 'carrots.'

 

[Groove Master]

I voted 30 because there is such a thing for those who read music and make a living with it.

But for all the others that don't need to read music 24 is the answer because in our tempered-tuning there is no difference in sound between B Major and Cb, Db and C# and F# and Gb Major. Same with the relative minors keys.

 

[elberon]

How a single note functions in a key, sure. F# is the third in D major, not Gb, I get it. But the argument is whether the F# major scale is somehow different than the Gb major scale and it is not. Should I be practicing in Gb and F# as different things conceptually? Maybe people have more time on their hands. Like if I'm in Gb and someone says play the IV chord I'm not gonna be confused thinking about Cb, I'll just play a B. I dunno, playing for 33 years, and it's NEVER been important for reading or making charts in my life, EVER. They're just labels, but I really like the key of Q##.

That’s true, they’re the same in terms of sound, what chords you’re playing etc. Didn’t mean to start a war about enharmonic equivalence. I’ll add though that if you’re playing in a string quartet or quintet there are subtle aspects of intonation that relate to tonal function that if they’re not done will mess with the sound of certain harmonies in a bad way. Two examples: the person playing the leading tone in a dom 7 chord in the key of G should play that F# a little on the high side (to lead) up and the person playing the chordal 7th (C) will likewise play on the flat side because it normally resolves down. This is a real thing in many styles of classical music, (especially in orchestras and vocal ensembles) but not really relevant if you’re doing a cover of let’s say La Grange by ZZ Top. The reason why middle school level orchestras sound so bad sometimes is that they’re oblivious to subtleties in intonation like this. So we’re all good, I think. Just hate to see rampant confusion about stuff like key signatures when it’s a pretty standard music fundamentals concept.

 

[elberon]

12 keys. 15 common key signatures. Don’t confuse music itself with written music. The “extra” three keys only exist on paper. Meaning, they are only a different way to refer to/communicate about the sounds being used.

Right, 30 possible keys but only 15 possible key signatures as each of the 15 doubles for a major key as well as its relative minor.

 

[Treblefree]

Both B and E can be sharp, and C and F most definitely can be flat...



I really don't think it's picky to acknowledge the enharmonic keys. And it is not just a question of semantics, although context is everything. By way of a valid example I offer the orchestral (or concert) harp, which by default is tuned to the key of Cb. Enharmonically this is equivalent to B, but in the case of the harp, it really is Cb. The harp has 7 pedals, each with three positions - flat, natural and sharp. The key is changed by setting the pedals. To play in G major, all pedals are set to natural apart from the F pedal, which when set to the sharp position sets all F strings to F#. The harp is considered to be in it's default tuning when all pedals are the flat position, which sets the strings to Cb, Db, Eb, Fb, Gb, Ab and Bb. A genuine Cb instrument. Like I said, context is everything, and this is pretty much irrelevant unless you are a harpist or you are writing for the harp. If the music for an orchestra is written in B major, the harp part is written in Cb.

Awesome about the harp. Truly never knew that and it is cool info. I usually standard tune my 5 string to Cb as well.

 

[Groove Master]

12 keys. 15 common key signatures. Don’t confuse music itself with written music. The “extra” three keys only exist on paper. Meaning, they are only a different way to refer to/communicate about the sounds being used.

The 6 extra keys do exist outside of the tempered-tuning such as in symphony orchestras and other ensemble that don't play with a well-tempered keyboard.

 

[groooooove]

the argument here is whether we should consider that Gb and F# are somehow different. They are not.

i don't mean to be "that guy" but they truly are different.

again, on a fretted / tempered instrument, i understand certain people deciding they don't need to ever view them differently.

I teach string instruments for a living. an advanced middle school student I will start exposing them to the idea of temperament. leaning slightly (yes, very slightly) more sharp for an F# and slightly more flat for a Gb, for example. we're not tuning different pitches, but thinking of it as a 'flavoring' as i'd call it to a 7th grader, and later use the word temperament.

again, I have 14 year old students that practice the difference, hear it, experience it, and know for sure it's real.

it's so much more palpable on a violin. especially in my earlier example of a string quartet. once you add a piano or guitar all of this goes out the window and the fundamental difference is simply how a composer chooses to spell the note (still important, but i'm super open to why one may argue otherwise)

again, not trying to argue with anyone on the internet

I just know how clear the difference can be in specific situations. I have lots of rather experienced guitar students who I have yet to teach this to because it's a low priority in their case.

anyway, on with the discussion!

 

[Malcolm35]

I have lots of rather experienced guitar students who I have yet to teach this to

because it's a low priority in their case. anyway, on with the discussion!

Count how many keys are shown.Link Removed

I very seldom played around at the bottom of the circle. But they are there if needed. However, with what we played, no one ever asked for them. The fat lady always wanted Bb, but not B.

 

[SteveCS]

Count how many keys are shown.Link Removed

I very seldom played around at the bottom of the circle. But they are there if needed. However, with what we played, no one ever asked for them. The fat lady always wanted Bb, but not B.

Interesting that only 14 are shown, and that Cb isn't shown. Yet Cb is the one enharmonic that has a specific, recognised and legitimate application in it's own right.

 

[Malcolm35]

They put the Cb in this one, which gives us 15. Good catch.