How many watts do I -really- need?

[mikewalker]

Mesa Boogie Super Bass 400+ Bass Amp | Music Go Round Woodbury, MN | Reverb

 

[Liko]

I feel that power tubes are greatly underestimated in contributing to both the clean and dirty tonal characteristics of tube amps.

That's very possible. Tubes, and the choice and use of them, has a massive influence on tone, and as someone who dabbles in both bass and guitar I probably should have made a bigger deal of it. I will counter only with the following:

1. There tends to be much less variation available in tube bass amps, as a simple result of the need for sheer power density. The two most popular tube bass head model lines (Ampeg SVT and Fender Bassman Pro) both use KT88-style tubes (6550s usually), simply because at 100W/pair in Class AB operation, they're the only way to get the kind of power bassists need into a single amp head. So, plainly speaking, the only decision is to tube or not to tube, and given relative prices and weights, it's not a surprise so many bassists choose the latter.
2. At 40-80Hz holding down the low end, with everything else on stage on top of you, most of the subtleties we look for in our own tone are indistinguishable even in A/B testing. Layer a rhythm guitarist chugging chords and a lead guitarist wailing out melodic lines, and I guarantee you won't hear the difference between an Ampeg SVT and an Aguilar AG-series, you'll just want as much of either one as you can get.

 

[smogg]

I’ve tried to search. Haven’t quite found the answer.

I love my 6x10 Mesa Cab. I used to drive it with a solid state Carvin head. But I want to move to an all-tube setup. But I don’t -think- I need a huge setup. I just want to be able to hear the bass over the drums and guitar during the practice.

Will 300W work? Or do I need to go to 800? I’ve never owned an Ampeg or a Bassman. But I’d really like the warmth of a tube setup.

Advise/suggestions?

Maybe something like this?
For Sale/Trade - Peavey VB-3 All Tube 37lbs !!!!!

 

[Jack Butler]

@Liko did a pretty good calculation to estimate what you might need for a given situation. That said, I think something to consider also is speaker area. A 100 watt tube head with an efficient 4x10 will cover a heck of a lot of gigs. Large metal shows without PA, maybe not, but most situations short of that you'd be fine. To illustrate using extremes...An Ampeg PF-50T into an 8x10 would probably get you further than an SVT 300watt tube head into a 1x10 Elf cabinet.

 

[Killing Floor]

You only need 3 Watts

 

[MustangWally]

You ask: "How many watts do I -really- need?" and my answer is: "As many as you can afford!" There are probably many much more sensible answers but I am firmly in the 'Tim Taylor' camp on anything relating to power.

 

[And I]

headroom is great. the volume knob can always be turned down...

 

[BioWeapon]

I played small (read sub 100 person) rooms with a 410 and a little 200 watt micro head before quarantine started.

Something to keep in mind: 1000 watts is only twice as loud as 100 watts through the same cabinet, roughly. Just based on that you might try renting a 100-200 watt tube head and auditioning it to see if it gets to the volume level you're after. You have a lot of cab to play with.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I’ve tried to search. Haven’t quite found the answer.

I love my 6x10 Mesa Cab. I used to drive it with a solid state Carvin head. But I want to move to an all-tube setup. But I don’t -think- I need a huge setup. I just want to be able to hear the bass over the drums and guitar during the practice.

Will 300W work? Or do I need to go to 800? I’ve never owned an Ampeg or a Bassman. But I’d really like the warmth of a tube setup.

Advise/suggestions?

V4-B

All you'll ever need. And, you can add another 610 if you really want to

 

[klokker]

With a Mesa 6x10, any 300 watt tube amp would be all you would need for anything. But more is........well more.

 

[aprod]

As many as you can afford.

 

[Element Zero]

How many watts do you need? All. All the watts.

Mesa WD-800 is phenomenal. Tube pre, adjustable damping, EASY to use extensive EQ, adjustable HPF, 800 watts RMS... the list goes on and on.

 

[Jeff Scott]

TL;DR

Think in terms of SPL, not watts.

 

[twinfallsbass]

Maybe something like this?
For Sale/Trade - Peavey VB-3 All Tube 37lbs !!!!!

I totally agree ;-)

 

[Wasnex]

Keywords = readily available

Yep and DR405s are fairly rare. There is also the Trace Elliot V6 and V8, the Ashdown 427 and BTA400, and the recently discontinued Mesa Strategy. The Mesa Strategy is probably the easiest to find and I believe also the most powerful; the manual say 465W.

 

[gumtown]

This is my all tube amp
Marshall VBA400 (and VBC810)
which I use rarely these days over a compact light-weight combo.

vba400

 

[SJan3]

I’ve tried to search. Haven’t quite found the answer.

I love my 6x10 Mesa Cab. I used to drive it with a solid state Carvin head. But I want to move to an all-tube setup. But I don’t -think- I need a huge setup. I just want to be able to hear the bass over the drums and guitar during the practice.

Will 300W work? Or do I need to go to 800? I’ve never owned an Ampeg or a Bassman. But I’d really like the warmth of a tube setup.

Advise/suggestions?

300watts with 6x10" better be plenty!

 

[_Some Dude]

But I want to move to an all-tube setup.

All tube? Aim for 100-300w. Hybrid? 500-800.

Used SVTs are fairly easy to find for a reasonable price. Because they’re more common I typically see them going for less than a 100w V4B.

If you want to go new, V4B, SVT, Super Bassman, Orange AD200... Mesa Prodigy/Strategy if you can still find one.

 

[Ace Of Bass]

200W (I would think) would take you far in an all tube situation...The Mesa Boogie Buster and the Fender Studio Bass Amp are both 200W and they both kill...if you want custom made “tubeiness” I was, Divided By 13 has an all Tibe amp that I think is around 200W and the almighty Noble 1000W....

 

[oldskoolskatedad]

That's very possible. Tubes, and the choice and use of them, has a massive influence on tone, and as someone who dabbles in both bass and guitar I probably should have made a bigger deal of it. I will counter only with the following:

1. There tends to be much less variation available in tube bass amps, as a simple result of the need for sheer power density. The two most popular tube bass head model lines (Ampeg SVT and Fender Bassman Pro) both use KT88-style tubes (6550s usually), simply because at 100W/pair in Class AB operation, they're the only way to get the kind of power bassists need into a single amp head. So, plainly speaking, the only decision is to tube or not to tube, and given relative prices and weights, it's not a surprise so many bassists choose the latter.
2. At 40-80Hz holding down the low end, with everything else on stage on top of you, most of the subtleties we look for in our own tone are indistinguishable even in A/B testing. Layer a rhythm guitarist chugging chords and a lead guitarist wailing out melodic lines, and I guarantee you won't hear the difference between an Ampeg SVT and an Aguilar AG-series, you'll just want as much of either one as you can get.

It may be sad to say, but we bassists are probably the only ones that care to notice or truly pay attention to our tone beyond fulfilling our basic role in the mix. That being the case there is no reason to not make ourselves happy and if one wants legit tube tone, in my experience, power tubes are essential.