Double Bass How much do various gigs pay?

[Ed S]

Would those of you who play paying gigs of whatever size/type be willing to offer even the vaguest guidelines as to how much various types of gigs pay? I often will see quite good musicians play and wonder if they even covered their gas money.

Last night we saw a pretty high quality 5-piece bluegrass band - top regional quality, and the lead had somewhat of a name. They travelled 1.5-3 hours from their homes in a neighboring state and played in the back room of a music-related business. The show was sold out with approximately 60 seats at $25 each. So that's a total of $1500 in ticket sales. This band had no merch table, no food/beverages were sold, and the business was not actively open for business. The business owner was there with 3 of his staff. So that's some overhead. And, as I understand it, the owner took them out for dinner.

I'm just trying to figure out who could make how much money in that sort of a situation? If you have a merch table, how much do you make from the door vs merch? And what pays better - bars, concerts, festivals, private parties...? And the discussion need not be limited to bluegrass.

I would also appreciate if any regular gigging players would share their mindsets/motivations when on the road. What keeps you going? I am often humbled by the talent I see, while realizing that their monetary rewards are likely quite small.

I'm not trying to invade anyone's privacy. Even the most general discussion would be appreciated.

 

[Don Hergert]

Our 4 person band typically receives between $300 and $500 for a 1 to 3 hour gig.

As a firm personal rule, my wife and I don't accept any pay, so those funds are split between our fiddler and our bassist.

While we will travel some distances to various festivals, we really don't consider our band to be a traveling band. Most of our gigs are for events at local businesses, churches or museums.

The joke about "tens of dollars" is not very far off the mark.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I haven't played upright in years, but in general, it's terrible. Going back almost 40 years, I generally got $100 per gig.

Today, for smaller gigs (bar, restaurant, club), I'm lucky to get $100, plus tips, this is for jazz or rock.

 

[Ed S]

Upon reflection, I think I may have asked a previous thread along the lines of "How far would you travel for how little money?" Gotta see if I can find it.

I wonder where the divisions are between "hobbiest" and "pro" musician? And my impression is that all but the top level pros have to rely on diverse gigs - teaching, day jobs, supportive spouses - to support their music.

If I had my way, artists would get paid more, and many persons less...

 

[AGCurry]

Oh boy.

First, I don't need the money, but I usually consider it important to charge *something* as an acknowledgement that my time and skills have value.

There are gigs I don't take. I don't like "wallpaper" gigs - cocktail parties, receptions, corporate events, etc. - which typically pay pretty well. The exception might be when the other players are really good and likable.

I did hundreds of 3-4 hour bar gigs back in the 1970s, but I'm not involved in bar bands now. Generally, I think I'm too old for that s**t. I would have to make at least $100 AND really enjoy the music and the "hang."

Sometimes I play for $0 or for tips - like duos in coffeeshops. It has to be enjoyable for me, or no go.

Sometimes I pay to play, as in amateur orchestral concerts. The benefit is that I learn a lot in rehearsals!

Occasionally I'll make good money, like $200-$500, and that's generally because I'm also involved in substantial organizing/planning/composing for the gig.

 

[Ed S]

There are gigs I don't take. I don't like "wallpaper" gigs - cocktail parties, receptions, corporate events, etc. - which typically pay pretty well. The exception might be when the other players are really good and likable.

I remember back when I was in college, one friend was in a wedding band. He travelled home nearly every weekend for well-playing gigs, while we were lucky to get occasional gigs paying free beer. We discussed, but never tried, working up setlists of popular tunes we could stand playing - Beatles, Van Morrison, etc. - as opposed to the rock we preferred, to see if that would get us more gigs. Very briefly I tried out for and was offered a position with a heavy metal "hair" band. They got TONS of work. But I just couldn't convince myself to stand the music/image. Now, decades later, I imagine it would have been fun for at least a while.

I'm really stricken by the economics when I encounter - shall I say - quite accomplished players/bands, who appear to be something more than "hobbyists." I'll play just about anywhere within an hour's drive for free - if it is music I like with musicians I like at times/locations that suit me. Usually for small "festivals/events" or dances. Or most commonly - at retirement homes.

One reason our band stopped trying to get paid bar gigs was we didn't want to compete with and undercut more accomplished players who were more dependent on the $.

Maybe I'm fortunate that I lack the talent such that I have never faced the need to decide whether I wanted to drive a distance for a relatively low-paying gig!

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Where you live and play also has a lot to do with how much a gig pays.

 

[Five or Six]

I won't book a gig for less than $400. Each member receives $100 a gig unless I have made other arrangements and cleared it with the band. I "always" go to the gig location and meet the people hiring us. (One nighters especially) That way plans are made and setup discussed. No surprises! Holiday's are more money, especially New Years. I always ask about dress requirements. Benefits are a band decision. We play up to 3 a year. Most of the time we don't take any money even if offered for a benefit.

Touring Bands: Guess that depends on how someone views -Touring?Some slate a band playing their local bar scene as Touring. OK, that's what you think, good on you. I toured a 3+ state area when I was a bunch younger. I loved every minute of it till it took its toll. A bus full of farting/ burping guys, no sleep, long bus rides, fast food, some flea bag motels etc, was part of it: There was more but it usually got overlooked. After 3 years I wasn't feeling too good. After I left I found out I was severely anemic. I hated to leave but I opted out before I fell over.

Anyway, We were family, and we liked each other. If one of us were down the others tried to help that person back up. You had to stay positive or you washed out quick. For me, I loved it! I learned a ton! About people and music. I stayed away from the politics even if asked! We had no nonsense management. They made it fun as possible. But, the rules were expected to be followed. We never handled money and were paid twice a month. What you did with your money was on you. I know there are Touring players here. They have stories as well. I cherish the memories!

 

[Tj smith]

My band is a 7 piece and we’ve been playing bars lately. I usually get $120-140 for my lead bass skills.

 

[bherman]

In my area, $6-800 gigs are pretty common, for me works out to $2-250 each typically. Sometimes more, sometimes less. No idea what regional touring bands make these days, my figures are all for local gigs.

 

[rickwolff]

And that $100 y'all got paid back 40 years ago (1986) is only worth $34 bucks today. Put another way, to be equal to getting $100 in 1986 you'd have to be paid $296 today.

Good luck with that.

Seems like Live Music is one of the relatively few things that didn't get a ride on the inflation train.

My first house in 1978 cost me $55K. I was playing $100 gigs.

That house today is probably over 400K. Now I'm looking for $100 gigs.

In 1986, the typical sticker price for a new car was approximately $9,255 to $10,439 for a compact model, with costs rising due to increased manufacturing and safety standards. Budget-conscious options, such as the Dodge D-50, were available for around $5,595, while average annual income was roughly $22,400.

No benefit to crying about it. Just goes to show what society values and what it doesn't. (Mamas, don't let your babys grow up to be cowboys (or musicians)).

 

[Solipsistik]

Typically $500 a night for our band. We're making that tonight. We turn down gigs with door collection most of the time.

We're a 5 piece with a real Hammond B/Leslie combo. I'm aware this is a DB subforum.

 

[evanrunyon]

If the per service fee works out to be less than $150-ish (so $750 for a typical freelance orchestra cycle) then it better be down the road from my house or have something on the program I've been really hankering to play in order for me to agree to it. I'm lucky enough to be able to turn down things I don't really want to do these days, but I still do plenty of shows for free (or for a fee that's maybe more appropriately called an "honorarium") for friends or in genres I don't get to do as much anymore (jazz, tango, salsa, etc.).

 

[matthewbrown]

A related experience: I occasionally played a venue with various casual jazz trios, and the pay was $125 per musician for a 3-hour brunch gig. I started playing with a group of amateurs working a regular paying gig elsewhere, a quartet backing a singer. They lined up a gig at the brunch venue, at $50 per musician. They were unwilling to work as anything but a quintet. I turned it down, because I didn't want to undercut working musicians that I knew and played with. The amateurs fired me for turning it down. It was kind of a relief, really! I never worked with them again, and they disbanded shortly after. I've continued to work casual jazz dates with the other (pro) musicians.

I think my experience underscores how amateurs, professionals and semi-professional players can often work the same territory. IMHO this affects pricing for gigs. These days I'm happy to work with both pros and amateurs, but I don't do badly-paid gigs with amateurs unless they are for a charity. I feel that if a venue has paying customers and the venue's owners are a for-profit operation, the musicians should be paid the going rate for the area.

 

[dbflats]

What job, other than musician, still pays at the same rate as it did in the 1980s?

Oh that's right.. childcare.

 

[evanrunyon]

What job, other than musician, still pays at the same rate as it did in the 1980s?

Oh that's right.. childcare.

Early childhood education and the arts; both equally valued by our society. Which is to say, not, like, a lot.

 

[ole Jason]

Where you live and the type of band you're in makes a huge difference here.

For jazz gigs in Louisville, KY $100-150 a person is pretty typical. Sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less, I still see $75/man gigs happening. Everyone charges more for weddings and events around the KY Derby. I'm priveleged, like a few others here, to not really need gig money but I think it's really important to not take less money because that devalues the arts for fellow musicians who do need the money.

 

[evanrunyon]

A related experience: I occasionally played a venue with various casual jazz trios, and the pay was $125 per musician for a 3-hour brunch gig. I started playing with a group of amateurs working a regular paying gig elsewhere, a quartet backing a singer. They lined up a gig at the brunch venue, at $50 per musician. They were unwilling to work as anything but a quintet. I turned it down, because I didn't want to undercut working musicians that I knew and played with. The amateurs fired me for turning it down. It was kind of a relief, really! I never worked with them again, and they disbanded shortly after. I've continued to work casual jazz dates with the other (pro) musicians.

I think my experience underscores how amateurs, professionals and semi-professional players can often work the same territory. IMHO this affects pricing for gigs. These days I'm happy to work with both pros and amateurs, but I don't do badly-paid gigs with amateurs unless they are for a charity. I feel that if a venue has paying customers and the venue's owners are a for-profit operation, the musicians should be paid the going rate for the area.

I used to do a great deal of historically-informed performance when I first lived in New York City a decade and a half ago, then a certain elite conservatory started pumping out class after class of twenty-somethings willing to work for peanuts while their parents paid the rent. I suppose turnabout is fair play; when I was in high school I was content to cluelessly accept $50 and a half-priced entree for three sets of quartet standards on a Saturday night while the scene went up in flames around me.

 

[JazznFunk]

My jazz duo/trio project quotes $175/musician as a starting point for regular work - including routine club/restaurant gigs - for 2-3 hour gigs. Depending on the situation we may negotiate that. Lately we've gotten work at/above that rate because we have clubs that are actively booking a combo of a guarantee plus tickets to guarantee a living wage payout.

For private gigs, including corporate gigs and weddings, it will vary depending on the length of the engagement, which includes the moment we park to load in, from the time we drive away. Usually $300-400 per member as a general range, especially if we expand to a trio or quartet at the client's request. All of these are for local/regional gigs within 1-2 hours from home. Fee goes up if we prep special repertoire, bring a PA, etc. Fee goes up even more if we are asked to travel farther from home - i.e. some place we need lodging and it's not an out-and-back.

I work a day gig and don't make most of my income from music. I consider myself a part-time professional, and conduct my business and fee negotiations as such. I remind everyone that if you are performing and making money at it, it's the duty of all musicians to focus on raising the tide for all of the boats in the waters around you. Taking bottom of the barrel pay just to be heard is a disservice to everyone. It's better to say no and stay home than to perpetuate a cycle of substandard pay. Know your worth. If you're in the same scene and in the same venue as full-time professionals, you're all swimming in the same waters.

 

[JazznFunk]

... I didn't want to undercut working musicians that I knew and played with. The amateurs fired me for turning it down. It was kind of a relief, really! I never worked with them again, and they disbanded shortly after. I've continued to work casual jazz dates with the other (pro) musicians.

I think my experience underscores how amateurs, professionals and semi-professional players can often work the same territory. IMHO this affects pricing for gigs. These days I'm happy to work with both pros and amateurs, but I don't do badly-paid gigs with amateurs unless they are for a charity. I feel that if a venue has paying customers and the venue's owners are a for-profit operation, the musicians should be paid the going rate for the area.

All of this! The unfortunate part is that the 'going rate' doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.... and the undercutters are rampant across many scenes.