Double Bass How much do various gigs pay?

[JazznFunk]

One of the bands I've played in for years had a habit of signing up for free events.

I had to make the point of not showing up for one because my input went unheeded. So I unheeded the event. Oh, I told them, they thought I was kidding or wouldn't follow through.

Free events just devalue your brand. I'll only do one for a real charity.

Yup. We have played fundraisers/charity events before plenty of times.... but they understand that the band isn't donating their time. We are hired and paid by the charity organizers to be there, usually for a reasonably discounted rate as a compromise. Playing for free (often, repeatedly) devalues you and your band, making it less likely that people will take you seriously when it comes time to charge an 'adult' rate.

 

[Jazzdogg]

My band is a 7 piece and we’ve been playing bars lately. I usually get $120-140 for my lead bass skills.

What's lead bass?

 

[Ross Kratter]

Full time pro bass player here. I live in Orlando and am originally from New York. I’m a freelancer who does everything from bar gigs to huge corporate events, weddings, and lots of work at Disney.
I do not leave my house for less than $200, and that’s typically for a bar or restaurant gig with tips on top of that.
Corporates and weddings are typically $400+. Anything out of town, at least $600. The corporate I’m doing tomorrow, which is only 20 minutes from home and where I’m only playing for an hour and a half, pays $600. Gotta pay the bills!

 

[InhumanResource]

Would those of you who play paying gigs of whatever size/type be willing to offer even the vaguest guidelines as to how much various types of gigs pay? I often will see quite good musicians play and wonder if they even covered their gas money.

Last night we saw a pretty high quality 5-piece bluegrass band - top regional quality, and the lead had somewhat of a name. They travelled 1.5-3 hours from their homes in a neighboring state and played in the back room of a music-related business. The show was sold out with approximately 60 seats at $25 each. So that's a total of $1500 in ticket sales. This band had no merch table, no food/beverages were sold, and the business was not actively open for business. The business owner was there with 3 of his staff. So that's some overhead. And, as I understand it, the owner took them out for dinner.

I'm just trying to figure out who could make how much money in that sort of a situation? If you have a merch table, how much do you make from the door vs merch? And what pays better - bars, concerts, festivals, private parties...? And the discussion need not be limited to bluegrass.

I would also appreciate if any regular gigging players would share their mindsets/motivations when on the road. What keeps you going? I am often humbled by the talent I see, while realizing that their monetary rewards are likely quite small.

I'm not trying to invade anyone's privacy. Even the most general discussion would be appreciated.

I don’t mind sharing. I’m in a 7 piece tribute, we play a lot of small theaters and venues (more like breweries than bars most of the time) and outdoor festivals. Most of the events are ticketed, and we usually sell out unless it’s a really junky place or a bad weekend like right before Mother’s Day or something.

We usually get between $100-$200 each, and that’s after paying our sound guy. I’ve gotten as much as $300 for bigger places but we usually have to drive a few hours for those. We’ll play a couple times a week when we’re busy, so the volume helps out a lot.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

I appreciate those who have shred their location, as location is a great determinant of pay. I live on Long Island and the jazz gigs I do typically pay about $160.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

I rarely play for free. Sadly, $100 is my minimum. Do I need the money? Yes, in that I prefer to earn what I spend rather than dip into my nest egg. Also, as others have mentioned, I deserve to be paid, as do all the people I play with, regardless of need. My friend the retired electrician doesn't do side work for free. I see no reason why we, as musicians, should offer gratis services to profit-making entities. This view is unfortunately not held by all of the musicians in the echelon in which I am most typically operating. Pride? Yeah, sure. I'm OK with that. If it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert (a la Malcom Gladwell) then I've been an expert for a while. It is not wrong to expect some consideration for that.

BBB

 

[Levitamin]

What job, other than musician, still pays at the same rate as it did in the 1980s?

Oh that's right.. childcare.

This is why I quit playing in bands ten years ago and became a GIS specialist. Now I can afford gear! I played (drums) in a band that played a Tiny Desk Concert, the Mainstage of the Newport Folk Festival, had a lot of positive National press coverage and toured with a big (now huge) band that was selling out 2000+ seat venues at $60 a ticket every night. We got paid $250 to open every one of those gigs. The band total got $250. And there were six of us. That’s when I was like “I’m out!” And now I get paid what I’m worth.

Granted, this is very different from a bar or wedding gig kind of situation. If we didn’t take a tenth of what we should have been paid for those big shows, a million other bands would have done it for free. But as they say, when you play for exposure, you expose yourself to poverty.

 

[Danny C]

I'm not saying what I get cuz I don't wanna piss anyone off. But if you're still playing for what you made in the 70's and 80's then ya might be cookoo. I play with a few bands. None are amazingly great or have a big name, but we do bring people into the bars that we play. All ya gotta do is ask for more money. Every time we ask for a raise, we get it. If you're going into these joints with a, I need 100-150 a man, than that's what you're gonna get. I don't need the money at all but I also ain't going out for the majority of the prices I'm hearing here. I'm not being snobby, I just don't allow places to take advantage of me. Everything has gone up, so why not our pay? Just sayin.... do what you want, but they have more money to give you, you just ain't asking for it and they aren't just gonna hand it to you. Asking for a raise works, give it a try.

 

[Levitamin]

I'm not saying what I get cuz I don't wanna piss anyone off. But if you're still playing for what you made in the 70's and 80's then ya might be cookoo. I play with a few bands. None are amazingly great or have a big name, but we do bring people into the bars that we play. All ya gotta do is ask for more money. Every time we ask for a raise, we get it. If you're going into these joints with a, I need 100-150 a man, than that's what you're gonna get. I don't need the money at all but I also ain't going out for the majority of the prices I'm hearing here. I'm not being snobby, I just don't allow places to take advantage of me. Everything has gone up, so why not our pay? Just sayin.... do what you want, but they have more money to give you, you just ain't asking for it and they aren't just gonna hand it to you. Asking for a raise works, give it a try.

You If you’re in a city that’s completely oversaturated with bands and musicians asking for a raise doesn’t work at all. There are 100 other bands who will play for half what they offered you.

Maybe it’s easier for stand up bass players because there are relatively few of them to begin with?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

These days I play only with a few select folks who always bring everything they’ve got to the music every time they play. It’s basically Jazz, but what I think of as “stretchy jazz” - the kind of jazz where you are playing standards, but deconstructing them and looking for new ways to play it at all times. When I talk about playing gigs, I usually tell two stories, in no particular order:

1) I don’t get paid to play the bass. I get paid to haul all of the gear out to the gig and then back home again. I actually play for the love of it.
2) when somebody calls me for a gig, my first question is never what it pays. It’s “who’s in the rhythm section?” If it’s the right people, there’s music to be made.

I played a 3 hour jazz gig with a quintet version of the A team in my town and made $200 tonight. Last week it was a trio, $150 for 2 hours. This week will be playing with Don Braden on Thursday and Wycliffe Gordon on Friday as part of the Jazz Fest at my university. I don’t get extra pay for that, but it’s part of my gig and these are 1 hour hits that I would do for free anyway. The following week I will stay home and hang with my wife. So it goes.

 

[Ross Kratter]

These days I play only with a few select folks who always bring everything they’ve got to the music every time they play. It’s basically Jazz, but what I think of as “stretchy jazz” - the kind of jazz where you are playing standards, but deconstructing them and looking for new ways to play it at all times. When I talk about playing gigs, I usually tell two stories, in no particular order:

1) I don’t get paid to play the bass. I get paid to haul all of the gear out to the gig and then back home again. I actually play for the love of it.
2) when somebody calls me for a gig, my first question is never what it pays. It’s “who’s in the rhythm section?” If it’s the right people, there’s music to be made.

I played a 3 hour jazz gig with a quintet version of the A team in my town and made $200 tonight. Last week it was a trio, $150 for 2 hours. This week will be playing with Don Braden on Thursday and Wycliffe Gordon on Friday as part of the Jazz Fest at my university. I don’t get extra pay for that, but it’s part of my gig and these are 1 hour hits that I would do for free anyway. The following week I will stay home and hang with my wife. So it goes.

I often make exceptions to my rates if I’m playing great music with people I love.

 

[sean_on_bass]

50-150 for most small bar/restaurant gigs. More for private events.

 

[brianrost]

I'm not saying what I get cuz I don't wanna piss anyone off.

I can’t imagine being upset to learn how much you get paid.

If I asked for as much money as some of you posted as your minimum I wouldn’t be playing at all. That just means my skills aren’t good enough to be in demand for high paying gigs.

Maybe it’s easier for stand up bass players because there are relatively few of them to begin with?

Prior to the swing music scare of the mid 90s (Brian Setzer, Cherry Popping Daddies, etc.) there weren’t many upright players in my area so I started getting a lot of calls as my name got around. Three decades later, there’s plenty of young bassists available and many that I’ve heard have classical training as well as jazz backgrounds and I have neither. So I get fewer calls.

 

[Ed S]

I can’t imagine being upset to learn how much you get paid.

...

Yeah, I thought that an odd comment. Interpreted it as a "humble brag."

No insult to anyone intended, but most (not all) respondents impress me as a little more on the amateur side of the group I described - traveling 2+ hrs for a 2 hr sit down concert with prepaid tickets. I'm very appreciative of the idea of charging SOMETHING or the audience/host will not think you are worth ANYTHING. And the idea of having your effort/expenses covered more than your playing time.

It frustrates me that talented, dedicated artists have to work as hard as they do to make relatively low incomes. Makes me almost embarrassed to think how much more I earn basically "driving a desk." Tho I suppose doing my job well requires some skills that many accomplished musicians may lack.

 

[Don Hergert]

The traveling band does still exist in bluegrass, especially where festival events are concerned. And festivals are still a very big thing in bluegrass. Because our band has played single gigs at a number of local festivals (for much lower fees), I'm aware of at least a few traveling bands that don't start packing for less than a $3K commitment, and if they are traveling through multiple states they assume there will be other cooperating-schedule festival gigs to and from their final destination. So that $3k number may be repeated a number of times at multiple events for that band's trip. We're talking about the top 1 or 2% of performing bands here, so many less well known bands may still decide to travel and expect dramatically less money.

For a bluegrass band like that 1 or 2% they are probably at least near the top of the headliners for each individual event, and they probably require separate housing provisions and travel expenses, staying at each festival venue multiple days, providing multiple musical programs and workshops for the event. So it's not like traveling from one bar or restaurant to the other each night, although some of that may also be included in their travel plans...

I'm also aware of one local venue that brings in one-night informal gigs from traveling bands that are already on the road, something which many bands like to take advantage of for exposure and just for fun. Their typical band pay is more in line with the pay we've all described here for local venues. I'm aware that some bluegrass lovers contribute to this kind of very deserving venue, to help keep them going.

Being in a long-term band provides insights about what other higher level bands and musicians go through. Just because a band is not full time does not mean it is just a hobby for the musicians involved. There are many excellent, serious, top level musicians out there who only play occasional gigs -- or who maybe only jam -- and have other career related sources of income to support their musical habit... It's a decision my wife and I made about 50 years ago when we began to realize the kind of venues we'd be playing if we went full time, and when we also realized that we wanted a family and a modest home and other relatively "normal" comforts. We've enjoyed being in a good number of part-time bands and have never regretted pursuing other careers so we could enjoy music without worrying about money.

Because jams are so important in bluegrass, lots and lots of jams happen at homes and small local venues, where there is lots of fun, but no money involved. There are still many "back-porch" gatherings of dedicated musicians who just get together because they love the music, and that feel is a big part of what brings and keeps bluegrass communities together.

 

[lurk]

One of the problems here is the disintegration of unions in general and the musicians union in particular. When I started gigging in the late 60's I couldn't work without a card. I had to audition before a panel "Ok kid, play Satin Doll." Every gig was a union gig with a designated scale - the fancy hotels, tiny coffee shops, heart of the ghetto jazz joints, bars way out of town by the highway - everything. Now we're playing for peanuts just like non union Uber drivers replaced union cabbies. There's a labor concept of prevailing wages. Even if only some of the workers in a field are union that will somewhat raise everyone's pay. There's also a problem with audiences that are ignorant as generations of kids have been deprived of music education. People just don't know and don't care about the quality of music they hear, especially in the jazz idiom, my favorite. Last night I heard a couple of Jazz College kids at a local bar, and they were not happening. Lots of right notes, but none of the qualities that jazz lovers love. It made no difference to the patrons. It had the general sound and texture of jazz music and the guys looked hip.

 

[Ed S]

...I'm aware of at least a few traveling bands that don't start packing for less than a $3K commitment, ...

I'm also aware of one local venue that brings in one-night informal gigs from traveling bands that are already on the road, something which many bands like to take advantage of for exposure and just for fun. ...

This particular concert space - my wife's and my favorite, books many acts in this manner. Someone who is appearing somewhere nearby on a Saturday night will squeeze in a smaller, more informal gig at this space the night before.

But often I'll look at a band's itinerary and see they are playing Friday night near Chicago, then Saturday night near Milwaukee, then maybe Sunday in Minneapolis... None of which appear to be "big money" gigs. Sure seems like a tough way to make not huge amounts of cash.

This line of thought often occurs to me when I realize how small an audience is, and how affordable the tickets. Sometimes there is a significant merch element. But if not, I wonder where the $ is coming from other than ticket sales. I imagine this store owner might be writing some of it off as advertising, or simply giving back to the music community.

I remember talking with one of the biggest name BG bassists, and he said a rule of thumb is to be able to return home every 10 days or so. Said longer than that at any one stretch was just too much of a strain.

Just because a band is not full time does not mean it is just a hobby for the musicians involved. There are many excellent, serious, top level musicians out there who only play occasional gigs -- or who maybe only jam -- and have other career related sources of income to support their musical habit... ...

Also, many musicians at the upper tiers are in MULTIPLE bands, as well as solo efforts. I often wonder how challenging it must be to coordinate commitments between - say - the members of Punch Brothers and Hawktail. Especially when bandmates live in various locations from each other.

 

[Major Seven]

Thats about the same as it was in 1974

I remember back when I was in college, one friend was in a wedding band. He travelled home nearly every weekend for well-playing gigs, while we were lucky to get occasional gigs paying free beer. We discussed, but never tried, working up setlists of popular tunes we could stand playing - Beatles, Van Morrison, etc. - as opposed to the rock we preferred, to see if that would get us more gigs. Very briefly I tried out for and was offered a position with a heavy metal "hair" band. They got TONS of work. But I just couldn't convince myself to stand the music/image. Now, decades later, I imagine it would have been fun for at least a while.

I'm really stricken by the economics when I encounter - shall I say - quite accomplished players/bands, who appear to be something more than "hobbyists." I'll play just about anywhere within an hour's drive for free - if it is music I like with musicians I like at times/locations that suit me. Usually for small "festivals/events" or dances. Or most commonly - at retirement homes.

One reason our band stopped trying to get paid bar gigs was we didn't want to compete with and undercut more accomplished players who were more dependent on the $.

Maybe I'm fortunate that I lack the talent such that I have never faced the need to decide whether I wanted to drive a distance for a relatively low-paying gig!

My friend in high school played in a wedding band. Made more than his father did as a machinist.
When we were around 40 he said to me if he was still doing this at 60 would I please shoot him.

 

[Major Seven]

Yup. We have played fundraisers/charity events before plenty of times.... but they understand that the band isn't donating their time. We are hired and paid by the charity organizers to be there, usually for a reasonably discounted rate as a compromise. Playing for free (often, repeatedly) devalues you and your band, making it less likely that people will take you seriously when it comes time to charge an 'adult' rate.

Non-profits is a misnomer. Someone is getting paid. IRS allows 45% for management/operating expenses
.
(I meant 75%)

 

[Pocket Dave]

Non-profits is a misnomer. Someone is getting paid. IRS allows 45% for management/operating expenses

Last year I managed three all-day events at a particular venue, enlisting bands and running the schedule. While one was purely for-profit and EVERYONE got paid - those providing backline each got an extra cut - the other two events were benefits.

Even for the two benefits, I made sure all (of us) who provided backline were paid.

Who paid? The venue that provided the space and profited from selling drinks during the benefits (and had to cover its overhead). Still, we managed to raise thousands for the benefits during each event - not a huge amount, but it gave the local music community - fans and musicians - a chance to do something positive.