How much noise is acceptable when recording?

[Jeff Hughes]

The sound at second 24 and 25 seems like a clacking of the string against the pickup maybe. I would not want that on a recording. It might be hard to eq out.

Is this played with fingers or a pick? My guess is fingers, but it might benefit from a pick performance.

 

[HardNHeavy]

engineer should already know how to clean that up..wth'

 

[LBS-bass]

While you are playing it all sounds good. When the music stops, and you slide your hand into position, there is a definite "chirp" on the strings. Could it be that is what the engineer is talking about?

That is the one I would probably eliminate. I don't hear anything during the music that rises to a level where this is a conversation to be had. There are some slightly audible clanks, but they're lost in the mix overall and this kind of music really doesn't demand the sterility treatment.

I didn't listen to everything, only about half of it, so there could be more, but as soon as I saw that gap in the wave form I knew where to head for what I wanted to listen for and found it right there.

If this is the problem, your guy is just lazy. It takes just a minute to isolate that sound and pull it out. However, it's also a technique thing because you do want to develop enough awareness to try to minimize that sort of noise wherever there is a break in the music itself. I wouldn't be losing sleep over this one though.

 

[Scot]

It's a little unclear to me exactly what the noise is. Is it the squeaky sound made when you make a position shift with your left-hand fingers making light contact against the round wound strings? Although I mostly agree that many of these types of extraneous noises are acceptable in the context of the mix and can even be a naturally human aspect to the performance (like a singer taking a breath), I would still try to identify the most problematic spots and see if there is anything you can do technique-wise to minimize or stop the offending squeak. Maybe there is another way to play the line where you can make no shift or a different shift in that spot. Practice playing a one or two bar loop that emphasizes the line in-question. Slow it WAY down. Maybe it's a string-dampening issue where you're trying to use your left hand to dampen the strings while you make a position shift. You may need to figure out how to use your right (plucking/picking) hand for string dampening duties while making the postion shift.

I second that notion of listening to the extraneous noise in the isolated bass tracks from our bass heroes. That will, at the very least, give you a sort of baseline of "acceptability" to apply to your own bass recording.

I wouldn't put the producer on the spot by challenging his opinion. You never know; that person could recommend you for other things down the road if they like working with you. Chances are, if you listen to the producer and try to work with him to get what he wants, he'll be happy.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Hello guys

I am finally opening this thread because I just keep thinking about this topic all the time. Let me teel you why:

I am currently recording bass for a band I have just recently joined. The thing is that the producer told me that I make a lot of noise (strings and frets) while playing. He has even considered that I may play flats (which I think it doesn't suit the genre).

I have been hired as a session player in the past. I mean, I am no pro (I am trying) but I could be considered semi pro. I have recorded with several producers and no one has ever told me this before. But I have been listening to the track and I guess I know what he is talking about. There is a riff when I play Root-5th root-5th very quickly over a chord sequence and this changing position makes some noise. So I have been playing the riff (and the song) several times and I recorded again. Even with different basses. There is some noise of course, which can't be heard when the whole band plays, but you can hear it if you solo the bass. But I guess it's the "normal" noise of someone playing.

I also talked to a friend (who is one of the producers I have recorded with in the past) and he told me that it is something normal and that I shouldn't be worried about that. The producer I am recording with now is more into Urban music and he always uses MIDI instruments. I love to hear any input from the people I work with, but this is driving me crazy. And I wonder that, because he always uses MIDI instruments, is not used to mixing bands with real instruments. I hate it when someone cannot accept criticism and I don't want to be one of them, but I am not sure if I am just overthinking this issue. I've been listening to some past tracks I have recorded and they have more or less the same noise.

I don't know if I should stop worrying about it or if I should go back to Bass 101 and get my technique right... I don't know. Do you guys have some examples of tracks that you consider that the noise is acceptable? Just to check and not to get crazy.

Thank you in advance

I had this exact same experience in a recent studio recording. It was an original bossa nova, and the bassline was the same repetitive rhythmic root/fifth pattern. The producer spotted somewhat regular slight noises when my fretting fingers came off the accented fifth and back to the root. It was string noise. The Fender American Precision bass had TI Jazz flats and there was a block of microfiber sponge under the strings near the bridge as I was going for more of a faux double bass tone. After his complaint, I gave the bass a thorough setup, which helped reduce string noise a bit but not eliminate it. (Setup entailed tiny micro adjustments to strings, pickups, and bridge tension; the noise never occurred from strings hitting the pickups).

After some focused practice on technique, I was able to reduce but not eliminate the string noise. None of it was at all audible in the mix, which featured vocal, acoustic guitars, cajon and vibes, then joined in a few places by horns. The producer is pretty tough on having a clean mix but he's going with what I created mostly because the feel of how the bass is played is perfect for mood of the song -- especially delivery by the female vocalist.

 

[longfinger]

So these are the tracks (not finished yet, of course, only a preview):





To clarify some things (I am reading all your comments and there are several awesome ideas):
-The band hired the producer. I am a part of the band (I have joined them recently and the album was already planned). However, I like to listen to what producers tell me about my playing or about the bass line I'm playing.

-I agree 100% that if the producer had hired me I would have to do what he demands (not this case, but an interesting discussion). However, what I wanted to know if what he is asking is possible. If he wanted me to play synth bass, no problem. But If he was asking for my bass to sound like a synth bass, that's more difficult. I am sure, as @Dbassmon says, there must be people that their articulation is so perfect that they make little noise (and these people are far far better players than me). But I want to make sure that, if it is my problem (my technique not being as good as it should) I must keep working. But if it is a problem of always recording MIDI instruments and not being used to listening to people playing, just talking to him and see in which point we can meet so we are both happy.

-I need to keep up improving my technique

Thanks for posting these. Good playing!

Yes, there is some string+fret clack and some noise, however to my ears it does fit with the style of music you are playing. It sounds good to me. Driving rock is a noisy genre.

However, my opinion means nothing here. What counts is what your band members and producer think. Main call is the person paying for all this. That person decides.
Maybe a setup tweak (higher strings?), or some cloth wrapped around the nut, plus foam under the strings near the bridge will help tame clack and buzz?

Playing less hard will get less noise, but the hard playing fits with the music imo. Or play same hard but with higher strings to lessons fret clack.
Make sure your right hand doesn't click the pickups too much.

That being written, what you recorded sounded good to me. Running a dynamic expander would put more distance between the quiet noises and the loud music. That's a good track.

Re-tracking costs money too. Whomever is paying would need to decide when to stop retakes and to move on to the next task.

 

[javi_bassist]

While you are playing it all sounds good. When the music stops, and you slide your hand into position, there is a definite "chirp" on the strings. Could it be that is what the engineer is talking about?

I know it will sound as an excuse, but that's from another track I forgot to cut haha. Anyway, you got me. And yes, I will work on my technique and record myself more often to see these kind of noises and how to remove them.

 

[GBBSbassist]

Some is acceptable.

 

[pbass2]

So these are the tracks (not finished yet, of course, only a preview):





To clarify some things (I am reading all your comments and there are several awesome ideas):
-The band hired the producer. I am a part of the band (I have joined them recently and the album was already planned). However, I like to listen to what producers tell me about my playing or about the bass line I'm playing.

-I agree 100% that if the producer had hired me I would have to do what he demands (not this case, but an interesting discussion). However, what I wanted to know if what he is asking is possible. If he wanted me to play synth bass, no problem. But If he was asking for my bass to sound like a synth bass, that's more difficult. I am sure, as @Dbassmon says, there must be people that their articulation is so perfect that they make little noise (and these people are far far better players than me). But I want to make sure that, if it is my problem (my technique not being as good as it should) I must keep working. But if it is a problem of always recording MIDI instruments and not being used to listening to people playing, just talking to him and see in which point we can meet so we are both happy.

-I need to keep up improving my technique

There's nothing excessive about any of the string/finger/etc noise in this bass track. Sounds good for this genre. Even when there's the pause and you hear that typical roundwound squeak when you move your hand--that is very normal and can either be very easily edited out, or....wait and leave that stuff in and see how it vibes in the mix. Sometimes it's those little quirks that add to the energy of a track. Those things are all over recordings by major artists. If I had to make any critique at all, coming from a session player perspective, is that you're rushing a little at times, but that's a different discussion (and also a subjective thing, and could be argued works for the song). Plus the bass is definitely too loud in that mix but obviously this isn't the final.

 

[Bass-ball]

If he's accustomed to hearing/using MIDI basslines, even the good ones that can sort of emulate a P bass or J bass tone, he's also not used to the "in between notes" sounds that a natural electric bass player introduces to the track/stem. Even mastered pros have timing issues, the 'squeeonk' of position changes, a bit of fret buzz, etc. So don't beat yourself up. And, as you indicated, other producers have been satisfied with your work, so you have that going for you too. (There have been times I thought I sat in a mix beautifully, but when I hear myself isolated, it sounds like complete garbage).

That said, what you can do, and what I do, is reduce some of that by raising the action a little to avoid unwanted fret buzz or inadvertent fretting, be extra deliberate in muting, and to please a MIDI guy, you really need to get your rests correct, because on a MIDI bassline, when there's a rest, it's dead silent, for perfect note duration. Learning how to rest for the proper duration is just as important as ringing out a note for the proper duration. Also, watch out for compression/expander stuff you might have on your track. Too much of either one and it could stand out to someone trying to mix/master your project. Just fire over a completely dry signal to him and let him do all that.

EDIT: I heard the clip. You sound fine. It's rock music, so much of that "human element" inherent on your bass track is going to get lost underneath the noise made by the drums and guitar anyway. I think it sounds great!

 

[frankie5string]

Producers are in a unique situation. If they are putting their name on something, they generally don't want to stay too far from what they know works for them.

Did the producer point you towards another bass guitar or give you an out to prove yourself against their wants/needs? Usually when producers complain about something, it follows with "Try this..."

Sometimes trying something different leads to a revelation. Sometimes that revelation is that there can be another way or the original way was still better.

 

[pbass2]

This thread got me thinking of examples where you really hear the 'ol roundwound squeak in recordings, and one that I remember jumped out at me the first time I heard it was the most excellent Casino Royale theme (RIP Chris Cornell). For example, listen at 1:30. Also, for whatever reason, when I listen to this on the old original DVD I have of the film, it seems even more prominent throughout the track. Obviously, being a major studio motion picture score, they could have done anything they wanted, and clearly decided to keep it in.

 

[bigjames]

I have been listening to a lot of breakdowns (specifically James Christian Hand on KLOS) and have noted that almost every solo'd bass track has fret noise, rattles, finger noise, etc. It vanishes in the mix. I think the engineer may be too picky on this.

 

[bass12]

OP, you mentioned that the producer you are working with comes from more of an "urban" (I always found that term kind of silly when applied to music) background. That would definitely explain his preference for a cleaner bass sound. I could point out any number of isolated tracks from more rock-oriented recordings that contain various possibly undesirable noises but how those tracks sound is irrelevant if we're talking about a more contemporary R&B or hip-hop aesthetic.

I've had the same issues with noise. My main bass, for example, is very bright with a heavy presence of upper harmonics. In addition, I favour fairly bright rounds and have my action set quite low. Works great live but not so great when moving to "tape". For a more noise-free recording I use my Jazz with flats and, possibly, foam underneath the strings at the bridge. I also favour slightly higher action - and I roll off the passive tone control considerably. After all that the only remaining obstacle is technique.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Hello guys

I am finally opening this thread because I just keep thinking about this topic all the time. Let me teel you why:

I am currently recording bass for a band I have just recently joined. The thing is that the producer told me that I make a lot of noise (strings and frets) while playing. He has even considered that I may play flats (which I think it doesn't suit the genre).

I have been hired as a session player in the past. I mean, I am no pro (I am trying) but I could be considered semi pro. I have recorded with several producers and no one has ever told me this before. But I have been listening to the track and I guess I know what he is talking about. There is a riff when I play Root-5th root-5th very quickly over a chord sequence and this changing position makes some noise. So I have been playing the riff (and the song) several times and I recorded again. Even with different basses. There is some noise of course, which can't be heard when the whole band plays, but you can hear it if you solo the bass. But I guess it's the "normal" noise of someone playing.

I also talked to a friend (who is one of the producers I have recorded with in the past) and he told me that it is something normal and that I shouldn't be worried about that. The producer I am recording with now is more into Urban music and he always uses MIDI instruments. I love to hear any input from the people I work with, but this is driving me crazy. And I wonder that, because he always uses MIDI instruments, is not used to mixing bands with real instruments. I hate it when someone cannot accept criticism and I don't want to be one of them, but I am not sure if I am just overthinking this issue. I've been listening to some past tracks I have recorded and they have more or less the same noise.

I don't know if I should stop worrying about it or if I should go back to Bass 101 and get my technique right... I don't know. Do you guys have some examples of tracks that you consider that the noise is acceptable? Just to check and not to get crazy.

Thank you in advance

Roll off the treble EQ on your amp (above 2KHz or higher). Boosting the highs results in lots of string and fretting noise. You may not need to cut it much to get rid of that racket. The Producer or at least the sound tech should have known how to compensate for that.

 

[P. Aaron]

A good take that compliments the overall track is what works. Only if you think you could get it better should you keep at it. Otherwise keep it and try again or, call it a take and move on.

 

[SteveCS]

If we are discussing the squeak at this point then I can see (hear) something needs to be done. The problem isn't so much the noise - this is one of those noises that can be incorporated in this type of music. But the timing is off - it interrupts the silence and is mis-aligned to the tempo/subdivisions. If you are going to incorporate slides, squeaks and the like they HAVE to be tight in the same way as regular notes. And the drums, bass and guitar MUST come back in together - here they don't. I'm not sure any of you are quite on point. But other than that it sounds fine.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

And the drums, bass and guitar MUST come back in together - here they don't.

You are picky but correct.
That "string noise" on the provided track is NOTHING(!) to worry about.
TIMING(!) needs to be "perfected."
If the producer/sound engineer is worried about some string noise but leaves out timing issues,
nothing else I can say.

P.S. Depending on the bass guitar EQ and effect settings, I know that any bass-line (from any bass player) could sound like some terrible noise.

 

[LBS-bass]

You are picky but correct.
That "string noise" on the provided track is NOTHING(!) to worry about.
TIMING(!) needs to be "perfected."
If the producer/sound engineer is worried about some string noise but leaves out timing issues,
nothing else I can say.

P.S. Depending on the bass guitar EQ and effect settings, I know that any bass-line (from any bass player) could sound like some terrible noise.

100%. I was not going to mention the timing issues, because there are lots of recordings and bands out there with those sorts of deficits and I think not every producer is going to feel as though they're getting compensated well enough to fix those sorts of inherent problems. You can do some things in editing, but sometimes it's just better and easier for the band to try and get a more consistent take.

Those are definitely issues that the band will want to address.