How much noise is acceptable when recording?

[JPK_DK]

One thing you could try is play with one of these:
Musician's Practice Glove®
My primary reason why I play with them is different, but a "side-effect" is that typically strings noises (from shifting along the strings etc.) are indeed greatly reduced.

 

[chris_b]

The band has hired the producer so I would guess he has the authority to make the decisions on this record. It doesn't matter what other bands, players or producers have done in the past, your situation right now is all that matters.

Welcome to the world of the recording studio. What works on a gig doesn't always work on recordings. If you are making extraneous string noises, and they are being picked up and are affecting the recording, then the producer is right to point this out. As a hired gun it's up to you to change your technique and stop the squeaks etc. My guess, in the studio, you shouldn't be making these noises in the first place.

It maybe that the producer has OCD or just doesn't know how to fix the problem in the mix but if he's asking you to change then you should should be able to.

If I was recording I'd have a P bass sitting there, with flats, just in case they didn't like my first choice of bass.

 

[2thAche]

IMO why pick apart the isolated track unless it's a distracting problem in the entire mix? I'm surprised many times how isolated bass tracks sound out of great songs, recorded or live (Geddy or Entwistle for example, in many situations, sound almost like guitars). If your bass tone works well for the song, and sounds great in the mix, there's no need to pick apart the isolated track.

BUT if the producer has final say, I don't know what your options are. Sounds like he/she is unnecessarily nit-picking your isolated track. Ultimately, they'll end up with a dull, boring tone without character, but if they have final say, your options are basically to cut your treble until there's no string noise, or mute it with a low-pass filter.

 

[brianrost]

The short answer is that when fretting noise is audible in the mix and is annoying, then it's too much. If it's not audible in the mix, then it's OK.

The same can be said for any kind of noises.

It's always the producer's call...I do whatever he wants.

 

[Levent]

producer told me that I make a lot of noise (strings and frets) while playing. He has even considered that I may play flats (which I think it doesn't suit the genre).

 

[FullumMusic]

Both Sting and Novoselic play with a pick, which is one way to get your tracks more orderly sounding (depending on your pick/finger technique). But it also means that their styles are atypical. There are a lot of noisy isolated bass tracks.

One thing you could do is put the producer on the spot and ask him for a reference track or two, preferably by a well-known band or bass player. You may be able to suss out what the producer is looking for. Best case scenario, you find an isolated bass track from the reference and it sounds way messier than you.

I'm sure you're probably playing fine if it's not noticeable when the other instruments are playing. Although there are exceptions, a lot of bass lines and like a mess until the instruments come in.

If the producer insists on flats, consider a brand-new set of light Chromes or Fenders and you'll be able to work em like rounds. Slinky or Rotosound would be even brighter, although not as smooth.

It’s funny how perspective works. You point out how the pick would help clean up the sound of Sting and Novoselic, and I picked those because you can hear the pick noise on those examples. 6 of 1/half dozen of the other. And when I saw Lounge Act isolated, I was excited because I thought there would be way more incidental noise in it. Aggressive rock picking with a ton of brightness and grit in the bass tone, with a bass line that requires a fair bit of hand movement. I was surprised it was so minimal. It was in there but not to the extent I expected.

I do like the idea of asking the producer for a reference track of similar style with isolated bass guitar. It’s a completely reasonable ask, and will help both the OP and the producer get on the same page. Especially if the OP can ask for the reference track in the context of providing their own reference tracks with reasonable amounts of bass noises still in them.

The flip side is, was the reference track recorded to tape or digitally? If it was recorded in the digital age with all the errant sounds digitally edited, they’ll have to differentiate between quiet playing and reasonably noisy playing that was digitally edited to be quiet. But that editing is time consuming aka expensive. And so it could help temper expectations of the producer if that’s pointed out in the context of “yeah the Uptown Funk reference track is noiseless, because it was recorded in the digital age and painstakingly digitally edited to not have anything out of place.”

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Nothing wrong with using a string cleaner/lube like Dunlop string cleaner/conditioner.
I think there used to be fret ease or something like that too.

Guitar Cleaning & Care | Sweetwater

His suggestion to change to flats is not acceptable. I wouldn't accept that, unless he's paying for everything.

 

[2thAche]

It’s funny how perspective works. You point out how the pick would help clean up the sound of Sting and Novoselic, and I picked those because you can hear the pick noise on those examples. 6 of 1/half dozen of the other. And when I saw Lounge Act isolated, I was excited because I thought there would be way more incidental noise in it. Aggressive rock picking with a ton of brightness and grit in the bass tone, with a bass line that requires a fair bit of hand movement. I was surprised it was so minimal. It was in there but not to the extent I expected.

I do like the idea of asking the producer for a reference track of similar style with isolated bass guitar. It’s a completely reasonable ask, and will help both the OP and the producer get on the same page. Especially if the OP can ask for the reference track in the context of providing their own reference tracks with reasonable amounts of bass noises still in them.

The flip side is, was the reference track recorded to tape or digitally? If it was recorded in the digital age with all the errant sounds digitally edited, they’ll have to differentiate between quiet playing and reasonably noisy playing that was digitally edited to be quiet. But that editing is time consuming aka expensive. And so it could help temper expectations of the producer if that’s pointed out in the context of “yeah the Uptown Funk reference track is noiseless, because it was recorded in the digital age and painstakingly digitally edited to not have anything out of place.”

To me that Novoselic track does have alot of noise isolated, but sounds great in the mix and wouldn't if it weren't so dirty. He has a pretty tight picking style, small wrist motion and down by the bridge I'd guess with a thick pick, so it's a lot of left hand noise. That's pretty much how most dirty tones are when you isolate them. I know when I record, some of my favorite tones within a mix TBH sound not so great isolated.

 

[Scarysharkface]

Hello guys

I am finally opening this thread because I just keep thinking about this topic all the time. Let me teel you why:

I am currently recording bass for a band I have just recently joined. The thing is that the producer told me that I make a lot of noise (strings and frets) while playing. He has even considered that I may play flats (which I think it doesn't suit the genre).

I have been hired as a session player in the past. I mean, I am no pro (I am trying) but I could be considered semi pro. I have recorded with several producers and no one has ever told me this before. But I have been listening to the track and I guess I know what he is talking about. There is a riff when I play Root-5th root-5th very quickly over a chord sequence and this changing position makes some noise. So I have been playing the riff (and the song) several times and I recorded again. Even with different basses. There is some noise of course, which can't be heard when the whole band plays, but you can hear it if you solo the bass. But I guess it's the "normal" noise of someone playing.

I also talked to a friend (who is one of the producers I have recorded with in the past) and he told me that it is something normal and that I shouldn't be worried about that. The producer I am recording with now is more into Urban music and he always uses MIDI instruments. I love to hear any input from the people I work with, but this is driving me crazy. And I wonder that, because he always uses MIDI instruments, is not used to mixing bands with real instruments. I hate it when someone cannot accept criticism and I don't want to be one of them, but I am not sure if I am just overthinking this issue. I've been listening to some past tracks I have recorded and they have more or less the same noise.

I don't know if I should stop worrying about it or if I should go back to Bass 101 and get my technique right... I don't know. Do you guys have some examples of tracks that you consider that the noise is acceptable? Just to check and not to get crazy.

Thank you in advance

They've got to understand how it all works in the context of a live band. Solo anyone's channel and you'll find plenty to gripe about, but that's not the product. The product is the combination of ALL the sounds, in context. That's a hard point to get across to some people.

John

 

[Dbassmon]

Studio musicians are scrutinized in ways that casual musicians are not. Part of the skill set needed to be a recording artist is flawless technique which means, articulations and sound are expected to be immaculate.

A studio musician has many masters; the song first and foremost, the artist and the producer; all demanding that the part be executed with technical excellence and with artistic interpretation.

This is not a job for most casual bass players because the pressure of those demands are considerable and you must have the experience, talent and expertise to perform flawlessly under pressure.

If it's a home recording, these issues do not really exist in this way. The red record light has it's own set of pressures but having the artist and the producer demanding a certain level is whole other thing.

To the OP, this is an opportunity to refine your skills and raise your level. If you start scrutinizing your performance on a micro level, the little imperfections are your assignment for your personal practice session. I can't think of a better way to improve your playing in the quickest way possible. FWIW

BTW, there are so many big recording artists that don't really get to play on their own records because the producer called in studio musicians to make the session happen.

 

[FullumMusic]

To me that Novoselic track does have alot of noise isolated, but sounds great in the mix and wouldn't if it weren't so dirty. He has a pretty tight picking style, small wrist motion and down by the bridge I'd guess with a thick pick, so it's a lot of left hand noise. That's pretty much how most dirty tones are when you isolate them. I know when I record, some of my favorite tones within a mix TBH sound not so great isolated.

For sure. I picked it because i didn't want to only pick the most perfect bass tracks from the best players we all can only hope to play like. Lounge Act has what i would say is a reasonable amount of playing noise... and yet it was still less than i was expecting, probably for the reasons you pointed out. It's definitely not a noiseless track at all.

 

[GregT]

His job is to remove anything like that from the final recording. It's done all the time by professional sound engineers. It's part of what they do. I have a little home recording studio, and even I know how to remove string noise.

 

[Andy Marshman]

Sounds to me like one (not both) of you may need to tame the treble end of the EQ a bit.

 

[drumvsbass]

And that nice, round, warm "clean" bass tone is actually pretty distorted

This is the secret sauce of bass.

 

[Ostie]

High action can cause that kind of noise, but you probably already know that. If it sounds good in the mix, He (producer) shouldn’t obsess over it. When you solo out tracks you hear al kinds of unwanted stuff in there. It’s just a fact of life.

 

[TheArchitect]

I would start by rolling the tone down a bit. It will likely get EQ's out anyway come mix time

 

[Egg250]

Is your cabinet mic'd or is your signal going DI into the board?

If you are mic'd, suggest to the engineer to place a screen between you the mic'd cabinet. Metallica had done this with Jason Newstead becaise of his aggressive picking.

Seeing as you're in the studio, I wouldn't think going home to practice more is a good option.

On the "sterilized, machine music", that's why I don't prefer so much of the modern music because it sounds....well....sterile. The engineers get a good portion of the track and copy & paste so that it all sounds the same. That's boring to me.

Good luck with this engineer.

 

[javi_bassist]

So these are the tracks (not finished yet, of course, only a preview):





To clarify some things (I am reading all your comments and there are several awesome ideas):
-The band hired the producer. I am a part of the band (I have joined them recently and the album was already planned). However, I like to listen to what producers tell me about my playing or about the bass line I'm playing.

-I agree 100% that if the producer had hired me I would have to do what he demands (not this case, but an interesting discussion). However, what I wanted to know if what he is asking is possible. If he wanted me to play synth bass, no problem. But If he was asking for my bass to sound like a synth bass, that's more difficult. I am sure, as @Dbassmon says, there must be people that their articulation is so perfect that they make little noise (and these people are far far better players than me). But I want to make sure that, if it is my problem (my technique not being as good as it should) I must keep working. But if it is a problem of always recording MIDI instruments and not being used to listening to people playing, just talking to him and see in which point we can meet so we are both happy.

-I need to keep up improving my technique

 

[Egg250]

So this is the track (not finished, of course, only a preview):

While you are playing it all sounds good. When the music stops, and you slide your hand into position, there is a definite "chirp" on the strings. Could it be that is what the engineer is talking about?

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

depends on who you ask, Merzbow or Steely Dan?