How much noise is acceptable when recording?

[Michael Stanley 2112]

If it can't be heard, when the rest of the instruments are playing ... I'm not sure I understand what this guy is complaining about.

I record quite a bit and if it can't be heard "against" the rest of the band, it can't be heard, no?

 

[QweziRider]

There is some noise of course, which can't be heard when the whole band plays, but you can hear it if you solo the bass.

That's how I approach it. If it's not a horribly egregious noise and the noise gets lost in the context of a full mix, I don't worry. That said...

I don't know if I should stop worrying about it or if I should go back to Bass 101 and get my technique right...

You can never go wrong working on technique for something different or improved.

 

[LBS-bass]

If it can't be heard, when the rest of the instruments are playing ... I'm not sure I understand what this guy is complaining about.

Could be he just thinks he has to take it out, regardless. We have a producer here who is "reknowned" for his "attention to detail" and really, he's just like this-- obsessive over every small thing that didn't come out of a pickup or a tone generating apparatus intentionally.

And people seek out his services and pay him a good fee, because it's this that they see value in. If he's that obsessive, sending out long lists of timestamps to his clients to let them know every bit of cleanup on aisle 12 he's discovered he needs to do, he must be good, right?

Again, it all sounds sterile to me and I would avoid him, but I think there's a certain mindset that thinks the more someone gets involved, the more you must be getting from them. Producers and engineers working at the local level in relatively small towns aren't making records for big name acts; they're doing things that they think impress the average person cutting demos and small pressings. And being able to send impressive lists of all the things you found to fix impresses some people, I guess.

Other than this, I don't see a reason for it unless the sounds really are obtrusive.

Don't get me wrong; I go over my own productions with a fine toothed comb, but not everything gets removed, I would usually only completely remove something that's sitting in dead space.

Some things just get driven down to a level that sounds human but not messy - like some of the breath and string sounds. I generally don't remove most of that because it takes the person out of the recording, which is not what I want. I hire session players because I want it to sound real.

 

[Chrisk-K]

Noise is a part of the electric bass sound. Even great electric bass VSTs reproduce all kinds of noise.

 

[logdrum]

The realistic bass sample libraries from Native Instruments have noise

 

[SAlcott]

It's not an unaccompanied bass recording. If it sounds good in context with the rest of the instruments, don't worry about it. Some of the greatest session players sound squeaky and clanky when their tracks are soloed.

 

[J-Mags]

For reference check out some isolated bass tracks. Jamerson on flats is not surprising how little noise there is. But Novoselic on Lounge Act has surprisingly limited non-note bass noises.

Both Sting and Novoselic play with a pick, which is one way to get your tracks more orderly sounding (depending on your pick/finger technique). But it also means that their styles are atypical. There are a lot of noisy isolated bass tracks.

One thing you could do is put the producer on the spot and ask him for a reference track or two, preferably by a well-known band or bass player. You may be able to suss out what the producer is looking for. Best case scenario, you find an isolated bass track from the reference and it sounds way messier than you.

I'm sure you're probably playing fine if it's not noticeable when the other instruments are playing. Although there are exceptions, a lot of bass lines and like a mess until the instruments come in.

If the producer insists on flats, consider a brand-new set of light Chromes or Fenders and you'll be able to work em like rounds. Slinky or Rotosound would be even brighter, although not as smooth.

 

[WG Plum]

String squeeks are high-ish frequency. Try a lowpass filter to minimize it and fret clank.

 

[LBS-bass]

String squeeks are high-ish frequency. Try a lowpass filter to minimize it and fret clank.

Honestly, the producer / engineer should be thinking of these things.

 

[Citizen Nara]

If you are playing noisy music, your band is in trouble

 

[javi_bassist]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I will try to upload a track so that you could hear, both soloed and with instruments.

I will also listen to some bass tracks isolated. I didn't think about that. Of course I will work on my technique again and try to be "quieter". I am just wondering if I am becoming obsessed to this "fret and string noise" and I don't know if some should be normal and it is the producer or it is just me. I find it odd that none of the producers I worked with in the past had told me this before (and a couple of them were top producers in my country). But again, I don't want to think something like "nah, it's the producer's problem and I play good" because I am sure I can get better.

 

[MDBass]

Hello guys

I am finally opening this thread because I just keep thinking about this topic all the time. Let me teel you why:

I am currently recording bass for a band I have just recently joined. The thing is that the producer told me that I make a lot of noise (strings and frets) while playing. He has even considered that I may play flats (which I think it doesn't suit the genre).

I have been hired as a session player in the past. I mean, I am no pro (I am trying) but I could be considered semi pro. I have recorded with several producers and no one has ever told me this before. But I have been listening to the track and I guess I know what he is talking about. There is a riff when I play Root-5th root-5th very quickly over a chord sequence and this changing position makes some noise. So I have been playing the riff (and the song) several times and I recorded again. Even with different basses. There is some noise of course, which can't be heard when the whole band plays, but you can hear it if you solo the bass. But I guess it's the "normal" noise of someone playing.

I also talked to a friend (who is one of the producers I have recorded with in the past) and he told me that it is something normal and that I shouldn't be worried about that. The producer I am recording with now is more into Urban music and he always uses MIDI instruments. I love to hear any input from the people I work with, but this is driving me crazy. And I wonder that, because he always uses MIDI instruments, is not used to mixing bands with real instruments. I hate it when someone cannot accept criticism and I don't want to be one of them, but I am not sure if I am just overthinking this issue. I've been listening to some past tracks I have recorded and they have more or less the same noise.

I don't know if I should stop worrying about it or if I should go back to Bass 101 and get my technique right... I don't know. Do you guys have some examples of tracks that you consider that the noise is acceptable? Just to check and not to get crazy.

Thank you in advance

Hard to offer you advice without hearing the take in question.

As clean as possible is definitely ideal: playing noise that is totally acceptable at vinyl mastering levels and softer sounding “old school” mixes can easily be unacceptable with a really loud/modern/heavily compressed production style.

 

[PaulTreff]

Music is a kind of noise.

 

[SteveCS]

...
I will try to upload a track so that you could hear, both soloed and with instruments.
...

Yes, useful comments are hard to make without actually hearing the recorded bass. Electric bass can be noisy, but unless you have an especially sloppy technique most 'normal' noise gets lost in the mix, and/or is heard as part of the 'character' of the instrument. Developing and maintaining a technique that minimises noise is just part of life but this need not lead to 'sterile' tones. If you have it mindfully controlled to the point of elimination then you (probably) have sufficient control to tastefully incorporate it back in on demand. To me, that addition to the tonal palette is a win, not a loss.

 

[bigswifty1]

The thing is that the producer told me that I make a lot of noise (strings and frets) while playing.

Your producer should take a listen to Entwhistle, Squier, Geddy or Steve Harris solo’d.

Or the opening chords to the original “Smoke on the Water”.

Or …. about a zillion other famous recordings.

 

[BlueTalon]

I will also listen to some bass tracks isolated. I didn't think about that. Of course I will work on my technique again and try to be "quieter". I am just wondering if I am becoming obsessed to this "fret and string noise" and I don't know if some should be normal and it is the producer or it is just me.

I wouldn't obsess over it, but I will again suggest practicing with headphones on. Headphones are brutally honest. If you're making excessive noise, they'll let you know. And they'll help you reduce your noise -- you wouldn't even necessarily have to try to play quieter. As you play, you'll just figure out ways to play the same lines but just be a little smoother about it.

(Never mind, I just saw you acknowledged my previous post.)

 

[javi_bassist]

I wouldn't obsess over it, but I will again suggest practicing with headphones on. Headphones are brutally honest. If you're making excessive noise, they'll let you know. And they'll help you reduce your noise -- you wouldn't even necessarily have to try to play quieter. As you play, you'll just figure out ways to play the same lines but just be a little smoother about it.

(Never mind, I just saw you acknowledged my previous post.)

I always study with headphones so that I don't disturb anyone else. It's true that I don't usually record myself and that I should do it more often.

I also changed some positions in the recording trying to be quieter.

 

[Rib 13]

I've done a lot of session work over the years. Producers or whoever is the person paying me are all different. I've always used brand new rounds historically but I have been in nitpicky situations such as yours.....the solutions in those instances were brand spanking new GHS Brite Flats which sounded pretty close to rounds with reduced fretboard artifacts.......Also: I don't know how much artifact we are talking about without listening to your track but if it's minimal your producer should be aware that these type of artifacts is part of what makes a track sound real and alive...even VSTi bass instrument soft synths usually have parameters to add string and fingernoise into a recording to make them sound more organic and authentic....

For your personal reference: YouTube some isolated bass tracks from famous players to compare...its eye opening to hear how many artifacts are on some pretty famous and platinum-selling recordings; some of which are just downright sloppy

 

[Levent]

I'm with humbuckers, flatwounds and high action thinking ''Do frets even make noise?''

 

[buldog5151bass]

Well, he says it's the producer, not an engineer.

Either way, final choice should be made by the band. OP's not going to be able to "fix" technique in time, so either change strings or keep original track.

Without hearing the final track, the TB masses cannot offer an informed decision. Every time I listen to isolates bass tracks, I'm surprised at the sound, no matter how well it fits the mix.