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How much would you put up with for the perfect sound?

#21
If we're talking studio instruments, I will tolerate quite a bit, such as being difficult to play, ugly or heavy, if the bass has some sort of unique, useful or inspirational tone.

For live, I won't willingly sacrifice those things though, just to get slightly better tone. The tonal nuances won't be as noticeable live anyway, ime.
 
#22
I don't put up with anything. It's easy enough to get a sound I love on any old Fender P, J or M. And easy enough for me to set up any of my Fenders so they play well enough for me. And I don't buy anything that's more than a hair over 9lbs.

If I don't love playing it, it's for sale. (Like the '65 Starfire I've got on Reverb right now.)
 
#24
In a cheapo, I will put up with a lot that I don't like about a bass if it has a good sound, but as the price starts going up, I totally get more demanding. Not that I would pay those kinds of prices for a bass in the first place, but there's no way in heck I'd put up with something I didn't like and it cost me a fortune.
 
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#25
I find that by having several 'perfect sounds' in my head, there is no necessity to put up with any instrument that has issues. That applies to budget basses as well as expensive boutique basses. I eschew issues. :thumbsup:

M. M.
 
#29
I've played pro and semi-pro since 1970, and I've never paid more than $800 (used) for an instrument. They've all been in the Leo Fender family of instruments. So maybe I'm not the right person for this thread.
But... I won't tolerate a lifeless-sounding piece of wood (like the '81 mahogany G&L L2000 or the late '60s plywood Univox P-Bass copy I had) or one with uneven responsiveness all over the neck (like the '65 P-Bass I had). A bass has to have quiet electronics (allowing for Jazz Bass single coil hum). Other than those things, I'm not picky-- about color, weight, the logo on the headstock, neck pocket tightness, chips of paint falling off, etc. A big part of the fun for me is finding something inexpensive (and, ideally, old) and figuring out what to do to it to make it sound and react like what feels like "me."
 
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#31
Keith Guitars said:
OP's question leaves me wondering about what issues he/she has experienced with their 'boutique' bass.
Are these problems with craftsmanship? Materials? Reliability? I would need to know more.
Since OP's post suggests that the bass cost $9k, my expectations are VERY high - there would basically be almost nothing I'd be willing to overlook.
I am ruthless with QC evaluation on my own instruments and everything else that comes through the shop, and at that price point I would feel
justified in pointing out the smallest issue.

If they are craftsmanship issues, there are certain considerations - it's hard for any small shop to compete with the consistency of factories
when it comes to things like gloss finishes, for example. Neck shapes, body carves etc. are also much more likely to vary from piece to piece
with handmade instruments, and for many people that is part of the charm of a handmade instrument.

Issues like bad glue joints or parts that fit poorly are a different story, and those should not be let off the hook at any price point.
As someone who makes my living building and selling guitars, I feel we are at a point where ANYONE who wants to take money for their work
should be getting a lot of things right - bridge position, pickup mounting, electronics/shielding, fret treatment etc.
The quality of these aspects has gone up tremendously on lower-priced instruments, and if they can do it, then everyone should.
There's really no excuse (NOTE: again, this applies to people who want to sell their work. For home/hobby/amateur builders I have no judgement.)

OP: if you can describe the issues with a bit more detail, I'm sure it would be helpful to everyone here.

Cheers,
Martin
Click to expand...

I originally neglected this purposefully because I did not want to accidentally or implicitly reveal the manufacturer on TB. I had discussed these issues in a manner which might imply the manufacturer on a smaller forum. I've scrubbed that information best I could, so I'll post details of the issues here without naming the instrument, brand or any identifying traits.

I am comfortable with wood and finish work and have a good deal of electronic experience, so I was able to satisfactorily remedy the issues marked with a *.
  1. Bolt-on neck was set crooked - At the end of the fretboard, the neck was shifted about 0.050". This required a modification to the neck pocket, but the end result is dead-on now. *
  2. Very poor wire stripping - all wires in the electronics cavity had frayed ends and were not fully attached at solder points.*
  3. Wiring was not correct - Requested a company standard wiring. A switch was wired backwards and two switches were in the incorrect holes.*
  4. Mark in finish - Deep hairline gouge in the finish. Unfixable, but repaired to be noticeable only up close or by feel.
  5. Hair in finish - Unfixable.
  6. Jack shorted on shielding - Jack was shorting on grounded shielding, causing preamp batteries to run out in a week.*
  7. Unevenly set fret - 1st fret was not fully set, but neck edges were filled. Took me 3 full days to carefully excavate the material, reset the fret and then a few more days to clean up the finish.*
  8. Mark in on bridge - Mark on the bridge where a screwdriver clearly slipped during install.
A potential 9th issue is that the pickup heights were not at factory specs when it arrived.* Neck was ridiculously high (just barely out of range of being slapped to death) while bridge was at normal moderate factory level. Easily fixable.

I did NOT contact the builder regarding the issues, and it would be unfair of me to call them out without having given them a chance to remedy the issue. I was/am confident in my ability to fix the important issues, and I do not see a resolution for finish issues that wouldn't potentially harm the tonality of the instrument.

Unfortunately, for me, the instrument sounds exactly like what I wanted and with the feel I specified. I have another instrument that's very close (MTD HD34-24, not the brand in question), but I'm in the situation where I am/was willing to pay the price to get exactly what's in my head. I got exactly that, but on what I hope was simply an extremely bad day for the builder, or perhaps training a new associate.

I make the assumption that if I were to contact the builder (who probably will see this anyway and know), they would take care of me without an issue.

I want to be clear my intention with starting the thread wasn't to air this out in any manner, but it seems reasonable to respond to your inquiry. I truly am curious what people consider 'no-go' issues for their playing situations and preferences.
 
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#32
As a builder, I really appreciate both your forthrightness about your concerns, and also your fair attitude about not wanting to publicize the builder's name.
Nobody is perfect, and since you've not yet told the maker or offered them a chance to correct the issues, it would be unfair to name them publicly.
Well done - these internet forums are not always so nuanced.

That said - I am a bit dismayed to read about some of these issues.
A shorted jack, high fret and poorly set neck would be unacceptable on a $200 instrument, and are way beyond the pale on an instrument costing many thousands. Poor soldering in the cavity also shouldn't pass. Soldering is not difficult to do right.

I have never charged $9k for an instrument - my instruments usually don't sell for more than half that, at most.
At my price point, I feel a LOT of obligation to give a customer a compelling advantage over a factory bass.
Much of that comes in the form of customization, but the "fit and finish" are essential parts of the added value
you should receive from dealing with a small-shop/boutique builder.

You absolutely should inform the builder of your concerns, in full - with photos if possible.
He/she should know, and you may spare someone else the same outcome in a future instrument purchase.
My only suggestion is that you maybe should have done so before doing any repairs yourself, as that would have
given the builder the full opportunity to propose some kind of recourse.

IMO none of the things on your list would be acceptable on any instrument worth more than $1500, and certainly not at this high price point.
What can be fixed should be fixed, either by you or by the builder. You've fixed some of them, and have saved the builder considerable time/money in the process.
If the maker can't or won't repair some of the issues (the hair in the finish, for example) then they should offer you some money back.
I am loathe to recommend such things in general as I am intimately familiar with the cash flow process of most small-shop builders,
but I would charge hundreds of dollars to do the repairs you have done yourself, and you should be compensated both for your time and your inconvenience.

Cheers,
Martin
 
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#33
I've spent WAY more "fixing" issues on a one of a kind boutique bass I commissioned a well know luthier to build than you would believe. This includes "mods" that said luthier has since incorporated in his current builds to a total refinishing due to finish issues that have also been "fixed" in his current builds.
 
#34
AdmiralBumblebe said:
Title is the question. Spurred by my ownership of a boutique instrument that sounds incredible, but I've experiences numerous issues that I'd normally consider unforgiveable on an instrument of $500, let alone 18x that.

But... I put up with it, because in 30 years I've never heard a bass that gets the sound in my head so effortlessly.

In retrospect... I'd do it all again, but I'm curious how much TBers would put up with?
Click to expand...
No need to put up with anything with a good bass.
The only thing I have to put up with is taking mine out of the case.
 
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#35
Keith Guitars said:
You absolutely should inform the builder of your concerns, in full - with photos if possible.
He/she should know, and you may spare someone else the same outcome in a future instrument purchase.
My only suggestion is that you maybe should have done so before doing any repairs yourself, as that would have
given the builder the full opportunity to propose some kind of recourse.
Click to expand...

Somewhat topically, there's a point where I lose trust in a builder to provide an adequate solution. If these relatively simple tasks were unable to be carried out, even if it was on the worst day of their career, I've lost significant confidence in their ability to rectify the situation without further time and money invested.

I think maybe you can understand that around the 5th issue I spotted, combined with being very pleased with the sound (after I fixed the electronics), I was willing to accept the state of things rather than potentially pile frustration on frustration.

The value of the bass is relative to very rare aged wood used, labour intensive design features and some level of the typical 'things cost more in smaller quantities'. That value surely has taken a hit due to the finish blemishes.

On your urging I'll let the builder know, but I'm well past the point where I would rather suck it up and move on with my life.

It's greatly reduced my threshold for what I would be willing to deal with in the future except in the case of a vintage instrument of my own shop buffoonery :)
 
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#37
Since you didn't send it back, it's hard to say that you had to put up with these issues. He might have been willing and able to fix them. There was one builder on TB that I won't name that built a new bass for someone because they were unhappy. I'd have at least given him one chance to fix everything, or make some kind of monetary adjustment.

When I think of issues, I think of ongoing issues that can't be addressed. If I absolutely loved the way a bass played and sounded, I'd have the issues you mention addressed, as possible, and enjoy my bass.
 
#38
lfmn16 said:
Since you didn't send it back, it's hard to say that you had to put up with these issues. He might have been willing and able to fix them.
Click to expand...

I think that once you receive a product that's not what you expect (assuming reasonable expectations), then you've already begun putting up with the issues.

I know how difficult it can be to build an instrument, and how often small mistakes are made then fixed in the process. I can only speak for myself in saying that once I take delivery of an instrument, if there's something off, then in my mind it'll never be "right".

The maker may have had to redo significant parts of the instrument before it got to me, and if it arrives to me 'right', then I'm good. Once I'm brought into the iteration/building process then I feel like I've ceased to be the customer and crossed over into the realm of being an employee of the builder.

So for me, once I've crossed that threshold, I'll always be putting up with the instrument rather than being a pure, happy customer.
 
#39
In my old age I could care less about the "perfect" sound. I can get the right sound, or a usable sound out of most anything. All about knowing how to set the knobs and listen.

That said - if you can't find a good or even great sound instrument, amp, and pedal of choice for under $1k all in, I say you just can't do it.

I like some instruments for the look, some for the feel, and some for the sound. But feel is something hard to change. Sound and look I can mess with until happy. New pups, electronics, pedals, etc...all more than easy and cheap enough for the sound.

Can I spend $5000 on a guitar? Yeah. Is it functionally any better than one for $800? Not really.
 
#40
To be honest, I won't put up with much in favor of tone. In the last few projects I've been in, whether covers or originals, my tone changes by song throughout the set, so there is no instance where the 'perfect tone' is always correct, not to mention, that 'perfect sound' at home often does not translate live. So for me, playability, comfort, dependability and versatility are far more important than one 'perfect sound'.

That being said, I absolutely will not put up with: Fret edges, high action, fret buzz, screwy wiring, fat or squared-off necks, too-tight string spacing, single-cut basses, neck dive or any of the absurdly priced, multi-thousand dollar basses with the same electronics that are widely available. Fortunately, all of these are avoidable by picking the right bass design and doing my own set-ups.
 

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