How Off The Mark Am I On This?

[El_Charro]

Hi Everybody,

So recently I posted a thread about learning via just playing along to songs vs using tabs.

Admittedly this has been a somewhat uncomfortable step forward for me, however I believe it’s going to be “worth it” long term.

From a listening standpoint-I can’t always pick out the bass line with other instruments present especially on songs I’m not as familiar with.

Someone on TB mentioned singing along to the song to work on pitch as a method to figure the song out..

This has me a lot...Between piano as a kid and a stint in junior high and high school choir I’m not a total newbie when it comes to music, however tonight I was wondering if I’m ever going to get better at hearing the specific bass line in the song.

I’m thinking I just need more practice and I will probably be able to pick out the bass part better when the guitars and drums are present the more I practice like this, however in the meantime I’m wondering if I’m screwing myself up by only trying to accompany the vocals when I’m playing.

It’s weird bc a lot of time when I have my bass in my hands and try to play along I think “This sounds about right”, but when I’m listening to music on my own, I can’t tell what’s being played even if I’m trying to figure out the notes.

Just wondering if anyone else has gone thru this and how long it took you to feel more confident with what you were doing.

Still practicing an hour a day 6x a week so I’m good with consistent practice and I’m guessing I just need to be patient and let time do it’s thing, but additional suggestions on improving with playing along to songs would be appreciated.

Thanks! \m/

 

[svlilioukalani]

Your not alone. It just takes time. A decent teacher will help. I never went that route. There are awesome lessons on you tube. Practice scales for a while, then jam along it’s songs. There are on line eat training lessons the will help tune your ears. Singing the Bass lines is a great way to fine tune what you are doing. The most important thing is keep it fun for you. Enjoy you time with your bass.

 

[Drucifer]

There are a lot of reasons you may have trouble hearing a bass line. The most common (at least for me, initially) is just not being as practiced in focusing on the bass line versus the melody or guitar parts. Another reason may be the quality of the recordings and the sound system you're using. I'm not suggesting you jump over to TalkHiFidelity and start your stereo GAS, but try headphones versus speakers and try different types of music (for example, try streaming versus CD-quality sources for the same song) to see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't, then it may be the first issue. I've found some EQ adjustment can help, bumping the mid-bass will add some clarity, and slowing down the music will help with busy lines. I've used the speed control on YouTube, but the quality is not great. Apps like Amazing Slow Downer and tools like the TASCAM Guitar and Bass Trainer can help as well, they both have EQ and speed controls. I hope this helps!

 

[WrapRough]

I am also learning transcription skills at the moment, and it's bloody hard. Really hard. You're talking about doing something that a tiny fraction of humans have the skill to do. So honestly dont beat yourself up. There is reason TAB exists - because sight-reading and learning by ear are difficult skills to master.

The things that are helping me at the moment are:

Keep it simple! I am loving reggae basslines to warm up to, and you seriously figure it out in 30 seconds most of the time. Then just go through your playalong playlist and find some simple lines. Trying to develop your transcriptions skills with a difficult song is like trying to learn how to play bass with really difficult songs - you would never do that, so apply the same logic.

Understand the chords of the song - things like chordify are great. Once you know the chords, there can be so many choices, and they will be centered around the chord tones.

Get the Amazing Slow Downer app - it's the nuts

Know the song really well - I mean so you can hum the entire bassline, note for note. Amy Nolte suggests a day of just listening to song without even going near the instrument!

Here are some of the songs I have been using for transcription practice to give you an idea of the level...

The Bottle - Paul Weller
Golden Touch - Razorlight
Bullet in the Head - RATM
Emergency on Planet Earth - Jamiroqui
Wrathchild - Iron Maiden
Fly Away - Lenny Kravitz
Rio - Duran Duran
Just a Girl - No Doubt
Sunday Morning - No Doubt
Helicopter - Bloc Party
Banquet - Bloc Party
Jacqueline - Franz Ferdinand
Take me Out - Franz Ferdinand
Bad Guy - Billie Eilish
Therefore I Am - Billie Eilish
Michael Palmer - I'm Still Dancing
Prison Oval Rock - Barrington Levy
Whyd you only call me when you're high - Arctic Monkeys
Girls and Boys - Blur
Treasure - Bruno Mars
Brick House - Commodores
When we get by - D'Angelo
Let me Ride - Dr Dre
Rock your Body - Justin Timberlake

Anyway, this is a skill that takes years to develop, so just embrace the suck and enjoy the ride!

 

[BrotherMister]

You’ve posted variations of the same thread fairly regularly over the past few weeks, several alone in April. Which leaves me with the assumption that you are expecting rapid results. When someone asks ‘how long?’ it tends to solidify this. Would that be a fair assumption to make?

At some stage everyone has asks that question because everyone wants the process to happen quicker than it does. If it doesn't happen quickly people find reasons to justify a lack of progress. The reality is a lot more likely either what they are doing, how they are doing it, not knowing what they should be doing or being told by someone equally as unaware what they should be doing that creates problems. We've all had those experiences.

This won't happen instantly because it never does. This is a process and requires discipline, constantly showing up to do the graft. You answered your own question by saying it's practise. There will be days where it sucks, I have days where my ears suck because I’ve not slept enough or whatever. It just happens. It’s hard, and it's worse on the days where your ears aren't in it but you still slug through it. There are times where I feel like I have a super power because I can transcribe stuff without an instrument being present and then there are days where it's all a disaster. Consistency and focused work pay off though.

Start as simple as can be. Nursery rhymes, Christmas songs or children’s songs are the best place to start because we know that stuff so well so we can identify quicker when it's right, or wrong, and the music is very accessible. People tend to think it's beneath them and look down on it because they are older but which of this are sadder. 1. Being able to play and notate this stuff by ear with out an instrument? 2. Having bad ears and not being able to hear what the musicians you are playing with are doing? For me it's two, every day of the week!

Use the sounds you know and label them which brings you a step closer to being able to identify them with music you don't know so well. We can't ever identify what you don't know.

Once you feel confident with your accurecy then move forward. Dropping the needle is a laborious process but it gets quicker, you'll have to rewind and listen to the same 2 seconds of music over, and over, again but the process gets quicker with time. Use good headphones as well so you can hear things clearer!

And I second lessons, the consistency in which you are posting this stuff and seeking advice suggests that what you are doing might not be working for you, or you don't trust yourself in what you are doing, and that you could perhaps benefit from working with someone to help guide you.

 

[MonetBass]

Learning to hear intervals, just like learning to play an instrument, takes time and practice. More for some than others. But if you keep at it, you will get better.

 

[El_Charro]

And I second lessons, the consistency in which you are posting this stuff and seeking advice suggests that what you are doing might not be working for you, or you don't trust yourself in what you are doing, and that you could perhaps benefit from working with someone to help guide you.

--------------------
Thanks for responding-Yeah, I suppose I sorta asked the same question twice, but I wasn't sure if my original was really read very much because it was right before TB went down a few weeks back.

On your last paragraph- It's the second one you referenced that is tugging at my brain (The I don't trust myself to know what I'm doing remark).

I am leaning towards breaking down and taking lessons at the moment, but in the meantime - My fear is that I'm going to learn "wrong".

And really I suppose I'm in no rush to improve- I am "better" than I was, so I've made some progress, just worried I might stagnate, but mostly worried that I might be screwing up and not even know I'm doing it.

An hour a day is currently the amount of practice time I have and plan to keep it up, just kinda kicking the tires at the moment to make sure I'm not missing something or I haven't thought of something which is why I am asking people with more playing experience than myself.

(Hopefully that adds a little more clarification to the question).

Thanks! \m/

 

[pbass2]

I learned to play that way starting out, just playing along with the music I was into at the time. Been a professional musician for decades, and never took a lesson. A teacher works for some folks, but that never worked for me--not on bass, keys, guitar--some people are just more wired to be self-taught. Don't worry so much about learning "wrong". There's so much available now compared to when I started, what with Youtube, etc (though you certainly can get some bad advice there as well. Not everybody on Youtube should be "teaching"....). Just keep playing, and listening to and watching other players.

 

[El_Charro]

I learned to play that way starting out, just playing along with the music I was into at the time. Been a professional musician for decades, and never took a lesson. A teacher works for some folks, but that never worked for me--not on bass, keys, guitar--some people are just more wired to be self-taught. Don't worry so much about learning "wrong". There's so much available now compared to when I started, what with Youtube, etc (though you certainly can get some bad advice there as well. Not everybody on Youtube should be "teaching"....). Just keep playing, and listening to and watching other players.

--------------
Thank you! Appreciate the positive encouragement...

I read an interview with Slash one time where he said he never took a lesson and just learned by playing along to the radio, so I know it "can" be done-though I'm, guessing his natural talent probably helped him some.

Thanks! \m/

 

[bbh]

For me, I automatically hear the bass and ignore the other instruments and vox. This is probably why I don’t know the names of most of the tunes I know.

 

[pbass2]

--------------
Thank you! Appreciate the positive encouragement...

I read an interview with Slash one time where he said he never took a lesson and just learned by playing along to the radio, so I know it "can" be done-though I'm, guessing his natural talent probably helped him some.

Thanks! \m/

Well, who's to say how much of one's "talent" is natural vs acquired? Plus, ya never know what you have down inside that you will come out with a little hard work. Sometime it just happens faster than others.

 

[JRA]

I just need to be patient and let time do it’s thing

some lessons and lots of practice is the absolute speediest way. good luck!



also: change the frustration you feel for not 'getting it' quickly into some satisfaction you can feel for getting anything at all.

 

[BrotherMister]

--------------------
Thanks for responding-Yeah, I suppose I sorta asked the same question twice, but I wasn't sure if my original was really read very much because it was right before TB went down a few weeks back.

On your last paragraph- It's the second one you referenced that is tugging at my brain (The I don't trust myself to know what I'm doing remark).

I am leaning towards breaking down and taking lessons at the moment, but in the meantime - My fear is that I'm going to learn "wrong".

And really I suppose I'm in no rush to improve- I am "better" than I was, so I've made some progress, just worried I might stagnate, but mostly worried that I might be screwing up and not even know I'm doing it.

An hour a day is currently the amount of practice time I have and plan to keep it up, just kinda kicking the tires at the moment to make sure I'm not missing something or I haven't thought of something which is why I am asking people with more playing experience than myself.

(Hopefully that adds a little more clarification to the question).

Thanks! \m/

Don’t take that comment as anything person. Trust me, every one of us has had a moment and questioned if what we were doing was the right way. Every time I’ve gotten overwhelmed with that thought I’ve sought out some one who I know can help me and give me impartial feedback and guidance. That’s always worked for me!

I fully subscribe to the theory that you don’t even know what you don’t know. Many people are self taught and have had amazing careers, far more successful than I’ve ever. But I’m also confident a lot of huge names in music know far less about music than many of us on this site. I still do a huge amount of stuff that falls into the self taught category, everyone does. You should always be doing that side of things as well.

Ear training can be done anywhere and doesn’t need an instrument at all! Use that hour a day to work things out in the bass but use the rest of the time to develop your ears.

 

[Pings Bass]

When I transcribe anything I do it on a keyboard. For hard stuff, I import it into Logic Pro X, have it figure out the time and divide it by measure, then I can repeat individual measures or even individual notes.

My general rule of thumb is if the bass line is so buried on the recording you can't make it out, it doesn't matter what you play as long as it's in the right key. Disclaimer: I've never played in a cover band!

 

[OogieWaWa]

Have you tried listening to the songs you're interested in in a manner that allows you to equalize (or in this case un-equalize) the audio; like a software EQ? Generally you can mostly turn down all the frequencies above 150 Hz, adjust as necessary. Or more simply without an equalizer, turn down the treble down all the way, lower the mids a little, and raise the bass. If your amp has an aux input you can use it's tone control knobs. It'll sound like mud and the drums may overpower things, but it might help make the bass stand out more.

Watching videos of some folks covering the bass songs you are familiar with to hear (AND see) what they are doing, you'll be able to pick the bass notes out much better

The other thing is figuring out chord progressions, and every chord has a root note. Most music is very repetitive. Most songs will have between 3 and 5 of them, so to play just the root notes is all you need to start. So as a beginner you may only need to know that many notes for an entire song. Songs generally use one specific set of repetitive chords in every verse, and a set in every chorus. Most of the time they'll be the same chords, perhaps in a different order or different timing. So those 3-5 notes in repetitive patterns Most times for simpler songs each chord will occur in full measures unless sections are moving fast. Use that pattern to figure out the root note for each chord.

Usually there is also a bridge that is different, those are tougher to figure out, but several of the same chords may appear in the song's verses or choruses.

 

[J_Bass]

Try listening to YouTube videos of bass covers.

The ones that don't have tabs, but don't watch the video. Just listen. You'll hear the bass very well, because you hear the guy playing in the video the bass line, and he is always louder than the recording.

 

[Acoop]

You need to understand song form. ... Most songs are 1, 4, 5. ... Learn to recognize the same notes of a chord back to the root. ... What happens between the chords is just your choice. ... Plus you always play the ONE! ... When the chord changes then 'hit the one'. ... When you understand the relationship between the downbeat and the chord colour (maj/min/demin/7th/9th/13th/etc) and your roll in choosing the right note to play, you'll start to understand how much time you have between those chords to make your choices. ... Once you understand the time between notes that time lengthens. ... Try taking the fastest song you know and play just the root of every chord and then start to imagine what you can do between those notes.

 

[Trilobita]

I might as well chime in with a slightly different perspective. After long years of on and off playing I got pretty good at figuring stuff out by ear - even difficult songs that I am unable to actually play up to speed -, even though I know very little that is actually useful about chords and chord progressions (not saying it's not useful - I just don't know how to use what I know in a useful manner). As someone else pointed out above, what I do is mostly completely ignore all instruments and just listen to the bass and that's pretty much it. One of the important moments for me was separating the listening from the playing: you simply cannot learn how to play anything by ear unless you can hear it with your ears. So try to listen to the songs you want to learn outside of your practice time - while cooking, while working out or while doing whatever else you spend your time doing. Listen to those songs as many times as necessary. Once you have the bass lines down to the point that you can hum them or hear them clearly in your head on top of the song, then grab your bass and find those notes during practice time.

Over time these two processes (figuring out the bass line and finding the corresponding notes on your bass) are going to merge into one, but if you don't know what the bass is doing in a given song, then you absolutely can't learn that song by ear unless you figure it out first.

 

[avi]

This is kind of funny to me. When I started there wasn't an internet let alone youtube or Tab. The only way you could learn songs was listening. We would have a radio with a tape recorder and would sit up Friday and Saturday nights as a kid trying to record songs we liked and wanted to learn. I would get really pissed if the DJ felt he had to talk over intros. How things change. You younger players might have the songs downloaded directly to your brain by the time your 50. Who knows. Enjoy it.
I'm sure other players have said similar already in this thread. Sorry. Dont mean to be the old guy yelling to get off my lawn. In fact, come on up on the porch and hang out a while. Thats also how I learned. Hanging with the older players. In old shops. We don't have many of those old school shops anymore so I guess this is the evolution of that too. Jeez I'm old...

Hi Everybody,

So recently I posted a thread about learning via just playing along to songs vs using tabs.

Admittedly this has been a somewhat uncomfortable step forward for me, however I believe it’s going to be “worth it” long term.

From a listening standpoint-I can’t always pick out the bass line with other instruments present especially on songs I’m not as familiar with.

Someone on TB mentioned singing along to the song to work on pitch as a method to figure the song out..

This has me a lot...Between piano as a kid and a stint in junior high and high school choir I’m not a total newbie when it comes to music, however tonight I was wondering if I’m ever going to get better at hearing the specific bass line in the song.

I’m thinking I just need more practice and I will probably be able to pick out the bass part better when the guitars and drums are present the more I practice like this, however in the meantime I’m wondering if I’m screwing myself up by only trying to accompany the vocals when I’m playing.

It’s weird bc a lot of time when I have my bass in my hands and try to play along I think “This sounds about right”, but when I’m listening to music on my own, I can’t tell what’s being played even if I’m trying to figure out the notes.

Just wondering if anyone else has gone thru this and how long it took you to feel more confident with what you were doing.

Still practicing an hour a day 6x a week so I’m good with consistent practice and I’m guessing I just need to be patient and let time do it’s thing, but additional suggestions on improving with playing along to songs would be appreciated.

Thanks! \m/

 

[downunder]

YouTube also has a feature that slows stuff down while keeping the same pitch...