How picky are you about tuning/intonation?

[JRA]

- how picky are you about tuning/intonation?
i am --- i like to be a leg up!
- How much does it matter?
it matters a lot...right?
- Do you just check the open string or open and 12th fret…and additionally 5th fret?
i'm on fretless, so: it's the relationship between the open string, and say the 12th harmonic plus where i want/need to stop the note at the 12th (or 5th, or 7th, or 9th, yada yada). but it's the same on fretted: e.g., an open note compared to an octave harmonic compared to the stopped/fretted note. right?
- How about the first fret....
not a problem on a fretless! i realize you can't make 'fret adjustments' by moving your finger on a fretted...you're stuck with the fret placement.
- Also where do you draw the line and how do you check?
i'm drawing the line with the tuners/ears. it's all i got. i like to know what the tuner says, but i like it when my ear says "that works!" they work hand-in-hand.
- Clip on tuner good enough, pedal?
i'd think. a lot folks on TB tend to snark on the snarks, but all of the clip-on brands i've used/using work fine if i keep up with the batteries. for tuning purposes, if you pluck the string a certain way = the tuner tells you everything you need to know about the relationship between open/harmonic/fretted...what's not to like?
- On a clip on tuner that has the green/red lines to show you how much you are off, what is acceptable and what would be perceived in a normal humanoid ear?
make sure it's set/calibrated to A440 and then go for the center! a vibrating string has more of an "average," but you can tell if it's close to the 'center' between "red and green."

good luck with your intonation!

 

[bigtone23]

- Also where do you draw the line and how do you check?
i'm drawing the line with the tuners/ears. it's all i got. i like to know what the tuner says, but i like it when my ear says "that works!" they work hand-in-hand.

This is how I do it, too. I use the tuner, but then rely on my ears for the final adjustment. It sometimes does require averaging out the intonation at various frets.
I often use an old BOSS TU12H for setting intonation. The circuit and mechanism that drives that needle is really sensitive. You can see the small variances in pitch.

 

[Arie X]

It is amazing how the pitch varies with time. I first noticed this with a mechanical strobe tuner in the '70s, but even a small Korg tuner generally starts sharp, shifts flat, then settles-in after a few seconds. Of course, I generally don't hold notes for a few seconds...

yep, string excursion. kinda like battle ropes at the gym.

 

[GIBrat51]

As the title says, how picky are you about tuning/intonation? How much does it matter? D o you just check the open string or open and 12th fret…and additionally 5th fret? How about the first fret, because from what I have seen, it shows neck issues real good ?
Also where do you draw the line and how do you check? Clip on tuner good enough, pedal, quantum light diffracting particle accelerator? On a clip on tuner that has the green/red lines to show you how much you are off, what is acceptable and what would be perceived in a normal humanoid ear?

OKAAYY...
How Picky? Tuning? I'll fuss with it, but I wouldn't say I obsess over it. Intonation? Well... I'll intonate the thing; but, I have some basses with rather...primitive, shall we say?... bridges. I'll certainly try to intonate them, but sometimes? "Close" or "Sorta" is as good as it's gonna get...
How much does it matter? Well, tuning does matter (Duh..). Intonation? TBH, for what I play 95% of the time? If I even get close to the 12th fret, it's a rare occasion, so... I'll intonate the bass - if it will intonate - but most of the time, "Close" is plenty good enough...
What do I check? Open string and 12th fret... see above. I have no reason to get obsessive about it, anyway...
First fret? I like the first fret action set at .020". Other than that, the 1st fret's never told me anything about the bass it's on - and I have 23 of the things...
Where's the line drawn? How do I check? See above for "the line". I check with the tuner and my tone deaf ears...
Tuner? For a string change/ set up, I use a Peterson Strobo Flip (no longer made; a shame, 'cause it's dead nuts nice). Otherwise, I have a TC Electronics Polytune Mini pedal tuner in my signal chain. I've checked it against the Peterson, and it's pretty damned close. Clip on tuners? I have a couple of "decent" ones; IME, they work fine on acoustic instruments; they're... marginal... for an electric guitar; and they're not worth a tinker's damn on any of my basses. Even the hollow bodied ones... As for the red/green line thing? On the Polytune, I have no problem getting it to give me all green. I've never experimented with not getting the bass dead on. And, NO; I don't know if my ears could tell the difference if it wasn't. I was officially labeled "Tone Deaf" in the 7th grade, so I probably can't tell the difference, anyhow. That's why I use the stupid tuners...

 

[Grinderman]

I've got a clip-on Snark, Korg CA-40 chromatic, and the Peterson iStobo Soft smart phone app, which I use the most, including to check intonation open vs at the 12th.

Beyond that, mainly going by ear, I check at the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 12th (already done with strobe), 17th and 19th fret positions.

Does anyone else here use the iStobo Soft smart phone app by Peterson?

 

[41hzthunder]

Maybe equal temperement frets if you are going to be picky? Straight frets aren't 100% accurate by their nature.

 

[legalbass]

I just make sure to set the witness points with each new string install and get the intonation at the 12th fret as close as humanly possible with the open note using a Peterson strobe tuner. Not sure there's a whole lot else you can do; the reality of physics precludes any stringed instrument from ever being "perfect."

As with all other respects of bass guitar setup, if it sounds good and feels good, it is good. YMMV.

 

[cpeterso]

I can adjust my bass’s intonation so the open and fretted 12th fret are in tune, plus or minus one cent. But my strings’ 12th fret harmonics are still sharp or flat about ten cents.

Will continuing to adjust my string lengths allow me to eventually get all three in tune? Or does a fret’s harmonic being out of tune with the same fret fretted mean my bass has a neck problem?

 

[OldSchoolFlats]

I can adjust my bass’s intonation so the open and fretted 12th fret are in tune, plus or minus one cent. But my strings’ 12th fret harmonics are still sharp or flat about ten cents.

Will continuing to adjust my string lengths allow me to eventually get all three in tune? Or does a fret’s harmonic being out of tune with the same fret fretted mean my bass has a neck problem?

Shouldn’t the open string and 12th fret harmonic be the same? Maybe the difference is more your tuner, and how long you let the note play after plucking?

The string will change pitch slightly as the note plays. I used to play quarter or eight notes when tuning to be more consistent.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I can adjust my bass’s intonation so the open and fretted 12th fret are in tune, plus or minus one cent. But my strings’ 12th fret harmonics are still sharp or flat about ten cents.

Will continuing to adjust my string lengths allow me to eventually get all three in tune? Or does a fret’s harmonic being out of tune with the same fret fretted mean my bass has a neck problem?

The open string and the harmonic at the 12th should be the same regardless of where the saddles are. Is it just one string? If so, it could be a bad string. What methodology are you using to check and adjust the intonation?

 

[41hzthunder]

The harmonic is just the string dampened at the midpoint between the bridge and nut. If the harmonic at the twelth fret and fretted note are off its the compensation. Compensation is adjusting the saddle to compensate for the small bending of the string when pressing the string down to the fret. If the 12th fretted note is sharp, adjust the saddle so the string is longer. If flat, adjust the saddle so the string is shorter (toward the nut).

There's some debate whether the ear can distinquish a 1 cent sharp or flat note. And it does depend on when you measure. When a note is first struck, pick or finger style, the string is stretched by the vibrations and will go sharp. If you tune to the "attack" tone, sustained notes will be slightly flat, and vise-a-versa. Choose your evil.

 

[ctmullins]

Not picky at all. Open and twelfth fret using a Snark. Or sometimes just my ear. Close enough is close enough for me. Then I’m ready to rock!

Honestly, in a band mix it doesn’t matter as much as you may think.

 

[Picton]

I don't care about it very much, but then I cut my musical teeth on a Tele with a vintage bridge and brass saddles. Still play it.

I think it's all what you get used to. I set the intonation when I change strings, and other than that I just tune my E with a clip-on (or, sometimes, a tone) and the rest of the strings by ear.

 

[bolophonic]

If my basses sound out of tune, then there is no reason to continue playing without fixing it.

 

[chaak]

I have perfect pitch and it's one of the things that really hit a nerve whenever the variations are unacceptable.
That's why for my next bass I am leaning towards a Buzz Feiten system or true temperament even ?!

 

[OOD]

I check the 12th fret for ever set up I do. I’ll check it if something sounds off between set ups.

 

[41hzthunder]

I have perfect pitch and it's one of the things that really hit a nerve whenever the variations are unacceptable.
That's why for my next bass I am leaning towards a Buzz Feiten system or true temperament even ?!

I've wondered if the true temperement fretting is accurate as you move through different keys. I know Steve Vie uses it, but couldn't find a bass with a similar system. Market opportunity??? The thing I wonder about is the harmonics. They change with different keys, so do the these systems account for that, or is it "true" only in one key? Chords do sound better.

Check Youtube for videos on it.

 

[chaak]

I've wondered if the true temperament fretting is accurate as you move through different keys. I know Steve Vie uses it, but couldn't find a bass with a similar system. Market opportunity??? The thing I wonder about is the harmonics. They change with different keys, so do these systems account for that, or is it "true" only in one key? Chords do sound better.

Check Youtube for videos on it.

I know that Henrik Linder from Dirty Loops has signature Mattisson equipped with TT

 

[FrenchBassQC]

I am very picky about the tuning and intonation of my basses.

 

[41hzthunder]

I know that Henrik Linder from Dirty Loops has signature Mattisson equipped with TT

Chaak, Adam Kneely has a video, look for "wierd guitar" and later in the video touches on the overtones being a little off or unexpected. Pros and cons to everything, I guess.