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How small can I get away with?

Can I get away with a 1x8 for a camp singalong in a concrete-floor gym?

  • The 1x8" Genz Benz cab is probably enough.

    Votes: 38 34.5%

  • The 1x8" cab is probably loud enough, but it won't sound great.

    Votes: 8 7.3%

  • Suck it up and take the Markbass 1x12 - the 1x8 is a lost cause.

    Votes: 57 51.8%

  • Leave the rest of your luggage at home and bring both.

    Votes: 7 6.4%
  • Total voters
    110
acleex38

acleex38

Jul 28, 2006
2,055
1,026
#1
Soliciting opinions on how much I need in terms of speaker.

Every August, I run music at a camp for a week. Music is a 5-song group sing-along twice a day in a concrete floor/garage-door+plywood-wall gym in the woods.

The "Band" will be two mic'd vocalists, and a couple of acoustic guitars leading the singalong (with about 50 people singing)

My amp head is a Quilter BB800. My normal cabinet is a Markbass NYC121 - in years past, the volume has to stay low because the cabinet is WAY more than needed.

So the question is - "can I get away with just my 8" Genz Benz Shuttle 8T cab."

I'm trying to save space in the trunk, so I'd LOVE to find out that I can carry a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller rig and still have enough volume. But even if the 8" has enough volume, I'm not sure if the tone will be acceptable.

I'm attaching a picture of the performance space and a picture of my "tiny rig" (Quilter + 1x8 cab).
 

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#6
Lobster11 said:
Yikes -- that sounds like an acoustical nightmare. You're not going to want much volume or low end, so I think the little guy will be not only adequate but preferable.

Have fun!
Click to expand...
Yeah - check the picture of "Bob's Depot Gymnasium" I attached to the original post. The only thing I do to mitigate issues is stick a cheap foam yoga mat under the cabinet. I've done 12s there for years, and I KNOW they're more than I need. It's just "is the little guy enough"?
 
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#7
acleex38 said:
Yeah - check the picture of "Bob's Depot Gymnasium" I attached to the original post. The only thing I do to mitigate issues is stick a cheap foam yoga mat under the cabinet. I've done 12s there for years, and I KNOW they're more than I need. It's just "is the little guy enough"?
Click to expand...
The yoga mat is a great idea.

It seems to me that you only need to be as loud as an acoustic guitar to find your place in the mix. I've never heard your particular 1x8 cab, but I've got a 20-watt (or less -- it's an old one) Peavey Microbass combo with an 8-inch speaker that I wouldn't hesitate to use for this purpose. If I space weren't an issue I might go a little bigger, but if not I wouldn't worry about it.
 
#8
Lobster11 said:
The yoga mat is a great idea.

It seems to me that you only need to be as loud as an acoustic guitar to find your place in the mix. .
Click to expand...

The yoga mat also helps keep pedals/cables somewhat isolated from the dirty floor.

The acoustic guitars WILL be amplified - that is necessary for the room (to keep up with 50 or so kids and adults singing). But those amps will be on the smaller side as well.

The Genz cab is listed at 175 watts RMS and 95db+/- sensitivity. The head can do WAY more than that.
 
#9
If the acoustic guitars are un-amplified and loud enough, I think that the 8T will be loud enough. I haven't owned one, but I've tried it with electric bass with a Shuttle 3.0 head (which is high-passed somewhat aggressively) and with doublebass powered by an Acoustic Image head (sorry I don't remember which one). That little cab isn't as loud as some of the new, tiny wunder-cabs (of which the MAS 18 is the most promising example I've heard) but, if you don't feed it a ton of deep low end (not sure how the BB800 is in this regard), it's louder than you might think -- plenty for acoustic guitar -- and in an echoey space like that, in particular, you won't need (or necessarily want) a ton of volume.

Anyway, I see your options as follows:
  • Take just the 8T. If it's not everything you'd hoped, suck it up and deal with it this time.
  • Take both cabs. Use the 8T. Pull out the twelve if it's not enough. If it is, take just the 8T next time.
For camp sing-alongs, I suspect the PA is not that big or robust (you wouldn't want to tax it with a lot of bass) but perhaps you'd be able to get a tiny bit of lift from it if the little cab struggles.

Again, though, if the acoustic guitars are unplugged and the vocals in the PA aren't super-loud or EQed with a lot of bass, I think you'd be okay.

I don't know what the HPF built-in to the BB800 is like, but if you have an external HPF like an fDeck or a micro-thumpinator, you could see if that gets you some more safe volume from the cab (though it's one more thing to plug in).

That amp is plenty to pop the speaker in that little cab. Listen for signs of stress and use the volume judiciously.

And, hey, it's a camp sing-along -- have fun!
 
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#10
acleex38 said:
The yoga mat also helps keep pedals/cables somewhat isolated from the dirty floor.

The acoustic guitars WILL be amplified - that is necessary for the room (to keep up with 50 or so kids and adults singing). But those amps will be on the smaller side as well.

The Genz cab is listed at 175 watts RMS and 95db+/- sensitivity. The head can do WAY more than that.
Click to expand...
Okay, I was typing when you posted this. If the guitars are amplified, well, I guess it depends on how loud you guys get and on how well they EQ for the space. You'd know better than I. I've played some "acoustic" jams with amplified guitars that got way louder than they needed to be, with people EQing poorly for the room. (Why am I wearing earplugs at an "acoustic" jam?)

I still think you might be okay, though I don't know for sure. I still see the same options I posted above.

EDIT: If you can, try playing with the 12" cab and the amp set about how you think you've had it at camp -- maybe a little louder. Can you match that with the 8T without the cab straining?
 
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#11
It's *always* fun. This is my 9th year doing music for them.

1.) I wish they were unamped. If so, I wouldn't even bother asking for advice. :)
2.) Quilter has a built in HPF at 25hz. "Depth" (bass) knob is shelved at 100hz. I can get some more volume that way. What's the line - "low, loud or light. Pick 2."
3.) an external HPF has been on my list for a while but it isn't happening yet.
4.) The camp PA is a good sized setup - it's just that bad things seem to happen when I try to get freaky with it. It HAS to work for mics and for running laptop/projector sounds for the week, so I'm hoping to avoid complicating things.
 
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#13
acleex38 said:
It's *always* fun. This is my 9th year doing music for them.

1.) I wish they were unamped. If so, I wouldn't even bother asking for advice. :)
2.) Quilter has a built in HPF at 25hz. "Depth" (bass) knob is shelved at 100hz. I can get some more volume that way. What's the line - "low, loud or light. Pick 2."
3.) an external HPF has been on my list for a while but it isn't happening yet.
4.) The camp PA is a good sized setup - it's just that bad things seem to happen when I try to get freaky with it. It HAS to work for mics and for running laptop/projector sounds for the week, so I'm hoping to avoid complicating things.
Click to expand...
Is ther a stand you can get the 1x8 up on?
 
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#14
Stumbo said:
Is ther a stand you can get the 1x8 up on?
Click to expand...
Yes - I have a tilt-back stand. The arms are too big for the cab, but I have a perfect-sized piece of wood to set on it to compensate.

Actually, while I wasn't 100% sure I'd use it, the stand and the board are going to camp no matter what, just in case they prove useful. The board serves as a makeshift trunk-liner in my car.
 
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#15
acleex38 said:
It's *always* fun. This is my 9th year doing music for them.

1.) I wish they were unamped. If so, I wouldn't even bother asking for advice. :)
2.) Quilter has a built in HPF at 25hz. "Depth" (bass) knob is shelved at 100hz. I can get some more volume that way. What's the line - "low, loud or light. Pick 2."
3.) an external HPF has been on my list for a while but it isn't happening yet.
4.) The camp PA is a good sized setup - it's just that bad things seem to happen when I try to get freaky with it. It HAS to work for mics and for running laptop/projector sounds for the week, so I'm hoping to avoid complicating things.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Don't know if you saw my edit, above. I'd try running the 12" cab a little louder than you think you'll need to at camp (though I get that might be hard to say exactly) and try the 8T next to it. Can you hit that comfortably? That might help inform your decision.

I didn't vote, by the way, because I'm not convinced that you need to "leave the rest of your luggage at home" to bring both. :) Do you?
 
#17
Of course not - I can always strap my daughter to the roof of the car.

Actually, it's a Honda Fit - there is plenty of room. I'm just driving straight from the camp in PA to the beach in NC and I don't want to carry around the 1x12 unnecessarily if I can help it (and if I leave it at home, most of the luggage will fit in the trunk without intruding on the back seat).
 
#18
acleex38 said:
Of course not - I can always strap my daughter to the roof of the car.

Actually, it's a Honda Fit - there is plenty of room. I'm just driving straight from the camp in PA to the beach in NC and I don't want to carry around the 1x12 unnecessarily if I can help it (and if I leave it at home, most of the luggage will fit in the trunk without intruding on the back seat).
Click to expand...
Don't strap your daughter to the roof. That's just wrong, wrong, wrong. I mean, do you realize how much that will cut into your gas mileage?
 
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