My twelve year old son has been told he has a beautiful, natural, vibrato. The thing is, he has to be reminded to use it. When he's reminded he uses vibrato easily and, to my ears, beautifuly. My question is; how much would you emphasize his use of vibrato and why? By the way, he has been studying bass for seven years and he practices one hour a night, an hour and a half in the summer.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass How strongly would you emphasize the use of vibrato?
- Thread starter Barongket
- Start date
When you remind him many times he will start using it automatically.
How many vibrato you use also depends on the music you play. When you play Eccles for example with much vibrato is nice but not very Baroqisch, that is a more romantic approach.
An exaggerated violin type vibrato is also not always appropriate on bass.
You have to be able to control the vibrato and not make it a reflex.
Sometimes when playing for example low long notes in an orchestra I also forget to use vibrato. But I try to remind myself each time. I also look at the other orchestra bass players how and when they apply vibrato and each is doing it differently.
How many vibrato you use also depends on the music you play. When you play Eccles for example with much vibrato is nice but not very Baroqisch, that is a more romantic approach.
An exaggerated violin type vibrato is also not always appropriate on bass.
You have to be able to control the vibrato and not make it a reflex.
Sometimes when playing for example low long notes in an orchestra I also forget to use vibrato. But I try to remind myself each time. I also look at the other orchestra bass players how and when they apply vibrato and each is doing it differently.
Yes, and try to get him interested in knowing when to use it and when not. It's also a way of doing a crescendo without changing actual volume, in solo repertoire: gradually add more vibrato.
But again, only where appropriate; be very sparing in baroque and the ascerbic end of the 20th century repertoire, use lots for romantic repertoire. Orchestra is another thing entirely, and vibrato there is mostly an intonation aid (you can feel the correct pitch under your finger if you vibrate while playing in a section, which is a very useful thing to know).
But again, only where appropriate; be very sparing in baroque and the ascerbic end of the 20th century repertoire, use lots for romantic repertoire. Orchestra is another thing entirely, and vibrato there is mostly an intonation aid (you can feel the correct pitch under your finger if you vibrate while playing in a section, which is a very useful thing to know).
He's first chair in CIM's prep orchestra. Would you elaborate on feeling the correct pitch under your finger when vibrating?
When practicing intonation or articulation, vibrato may distract from what's going on. Also, some orchestras discourage vibrato, and in other orchestral passages it may not be important to use vibrato. It might a good idea to encourage it and remind him when he's working solo repertoire, but the habit of using it when it's important shouldn't be as difficult to learn as intonation or bow technique, etc. I would especially avoid making vibrato the sticking point if your son is otherwise naturally motivated to practice. If he practices on his own, nagging him about vibrato might discourage him. In the end, I don't imagine that this particular issue, especially at an early age, will inhibit his development as a player, so allowing him to focus elsewhere might be a good idea.
That's probably why his teacher hasn't made it an issue, although she has had to remind him to use it on occasions. I must admit that when he plays without vibrato it sounds pure to me.
Ah.. Ok, if he's playing principal bass in an orchestra, there's lots of things he needs to learn.
First among them is, if the section is having intonation problems, he should minimise his vibrato to give them something to lock in to, and he should tell his desk partner to do the same. What happens is the section basses try to phase-lock with each other, and the players literally feel the shared vibration of the whole section's basses, not just there own. But if NOBODY has the center of the note, that doesn't work... and it's the first desk's job to make that possible. Inside first actually has more leverage than the principal because of where they're sitting. Whereas, the instruction for the rest of the section is 'if you're not sure of the intonation, use some vibrato, and you should get a sensation sort of like like a notch in your fingerboard where the note is'.
There's a lot more than that, but that's the part that touches on vibrato...
First among them is, if the section is having intonation problems, he should minimise his vibrato to give them something to lock in to, and he should tell his desk partner to do the same. What happens is the section basses try to phase-lock with each other, and the players literally feel the shared vibration of the whole section's basses, not just there own. But if NOBODY has the center of the note, that doesn't work... and it's the first desk's job to make that possible. Inside first actually has more leverage than the principal because of where they're sitting. Whereas, the instruction for the rest of the section is 'if you're not sure of the intonation, use some vibrato, and you should get a sensation sort of like like a notch in your fingerboard where the note is'.
There's a lot more than that, but that's the part that touches on vibrato...
I think what a lot of people (often string instrumentalists) forget is that vibrato is just an ornament. Yes, it is an important and effective ornament when used appropriately, but should not be thought of otherwise. I notice that many people develop a sort of "default vibrato," added thoughtlessly or out of habit. I think it is more valuable that someone's "default" is a pure tone, then add vibrato at will to fit the music. Think about Edgar Meyer's use of vibrato: listen to any recording of Edgar and any vibrato he adds is totally intentional and fits the music perfectly. The same goes for when he chooses not to use vibrato.
Good point MDE!
But tell that to violin and cello players. Many use an exaggerated vibrato on every note. Like I said, on bass that doesn't work so well. It can even be annoying to listen to. Like a singer who is using very fast vibrato. Maybe it can work with a very romantic melody.
But tell that to violin and cello players. Many use an exaggerated vibrato on every note. Like I said, on bass that doesn't work so well. It can even be annoying to listen to. Like a singer who is using very fast vibrato. Maybe it can work with a very romantic melody.
- Jan 24, 2002
- 2,117
- 950
- Disclosures
- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
Just one of the many reasons to play the bass. Vibrato can be used to amazing effect, but if the default sound is a heavy-handed vibration, it just sounds awful.
There are appropriate times for vibrato, and there are times to avoid it. Listening to music and playing with others will, with time, teach your son what those occasions are. This is relatively complex for a twelve year old, so the fact that he's even thinking about it is stellar.
I think I'll try to be a little more hands off about vibrato. By the way if you google "Wayan Crain" on YouTube, you can hear him play. He was playing a 1/8 size bass with his first bow. He now plays a 1/4 size bass with a Prochownick bow.
I tend to stay away from much vibrato on the E string, and advise my students to do the same. It is hard enough for a section to center each note at such a low pitch without adding a confusion of vibratos. I prefer a well-centered note with good tone and projection. The sustained low A flat is one of the hardest notes for section intonation, I find, especially if everyone uses their pinkie. The 2nd finger not only creates a firmer pitch, it is easier to control a quality vibrato.
According to Knut Guettler even if each player uses a small amount of vibrato at different speeds this will add a lot of colour to the section sound. Conductors love to see long bows with lots of vibrato as evidence the the players are feeling the music just as passionately as they do. Often this has a ghastly effect on intonation, tone and projection of E string notes.
Otherwise, there are many excellent comments above.
DP
According to Knut Guettler even if each player uses a small amount of vibrato at different speeds this will add a lot of colour to the section sound. Conductors love to see long bows with lots of vibrato as evidence the the players are feeling the music just as passionately as they do. Often this has a ghastly effect on intonation, tone and projection of E string notes.
Otherwise, there are many excellent comments above.
DP
I experienced the same thing. When practicing Bruckners 7th symphony, 2nd part in a bass group session. It was very hard to get say a low F# in tune. Just a simple F# you would say, but it sounded awfully out of tune in the beginning. Most people talk about intonation problems with high notes but it is just as hard to get those low notes in tune especially with a group of bass players. Most players think they are in tune, but they are not.
especially short low notes are difficult to get in tune as a section I experienced.
Low F# is the worst note of all to get in tune, no vibrato at all until you know you have it, and even then keep it small.
That explains a lot to me, as in my school orchestra, we have a group of about four sure-footed bassists, and we all have been playing for some time and still, our intonation is off on lower notes.
I think it's easier to hear the distinction on higher notes, but on low notes, especially with the rest of the orchestra playing, we seem to get lost in it.
This is a complicated issue which will bear many answers. Some schools of playing will encourage frequent vibrato, some less frequent, some fast, some slow, etc. As it's already been said, it's unusual and wonderful that your son has developed a pleasing vibrato at his age. With a good teacher and more experience, he will surely learn to use it appropriately.
It's important to remember that vibrato is mostly used as an aid (or ornamentation) for sustained notes. Whereas in early traditions of string playing, a soloist would use mostly improvised, virtuosic ornamentation to "fill the gaps," music written, say in the 19th and 20th century, started incorporating more and more wiggle to give more momentum and vocal quality to long notes that would otherwise die musically without a sustained vibrato. Even in period performance you will hear a player vibrate near the end of a sustained note just to keep it going, almost like the slow vibrating you would hear from a bell a few seconds after it's rung.
It's important to remember that vibrato is mostly used as an aid (or ornamentation) for sustained notes. Whereas in early traditions of string playing, a soloist would use mostly improvised, virtuosic ornamentation to "fill the gaps," music written, say in the 19th and 20th century, started incorporating more and more wiggle to give more momentum and vocal quality to long notes that would otherwise die musically without a sustained vibrato. Even in period performance you will hear a player vibrate near the end of a sustained note just to keep it going, almost like the slow vibrating you would hear from a bell a few seconds after it's rung.
