We did this two weeks ago. Some replies were actually correct!
How does one become an amazing player?
How does one become an amazing player?
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How to become good... really good...
- Thread starter Felken
- Start date
Django Rheinhardt had two fingers on his left hand.
Literally the only thing that can block your potential is you. There are no physical attributes that can make you a great player to the point that I've seen at least 2 bass players that only had 1 hand and were fantastic. Im a good guitarist and bassist, not great and after playing with many different people over the years the resounding roadblock that people run into is mental. Not that people come to some concept they don't understand but that they are just not interested enough in getting better. I started thinking about it and what some have said already resounds with my experience. When I was a teenager I played from the time I got home from school until I would often fall asleep with a guitar in my hands. It just fascinated me. It was like this until I graduated from college. So I have literately 10's of thousands of hours on guitar and bass in the 20+ years and I'm just now getting into jazz theory. On the flip side I had a guy ask me to play his guitar recently , I played a little and he said "it must just come naturally to some ppl" my reply to him is the same I'll give to you "I've got 10's of thousands of hours on these instruments, it's not natural I've just done it a lot"
Have fun on your journey.
I guess it's also about finding your thing. Personally I consider myself a less than average bassist, yet, I've grown a decent/likable punk and metal guy later in bass life. I sorta' "shine" there. This was after some 2 decades doing all kinds of stuff, almost 100% fingerstyle, I rediscovered myself with a pick in a rumbling ODed growly register. Totally changed me as a bass player. People tend to notice and like me more than back when I was trying to be a more "polite" bassist. I'm also more appreciated in the gigs I'm doing.
Read through Guitar World Presents Steve Vai's Guitar Workout and apply the exercises and discipline to bass.
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Great minds... I have a printout, and yes... I have done that also.
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If it was easy everybody would do it. You might not have 10 hours a day, but you could find 4 hours a day and more on weekends. Lots of good information on TB about the difference between playing and practicing. Make sure you are actually practicing when you think you are practicing. Get a good teacher and practice. Great players find a way to get it done, mediocre players find excuses why they can't get it done. Many times when the advice is 'get a teacher' the person asking advice has a list of reasons that they can't. The universe doesn't care about your excuses.
I used to practice 6 hours a day. I got pretty good, then found out that what girls did was a lot more fun. Then I came back to music and found that the two weren't mutually exclusive - but that attitude was more important than competency - in both cases.
Now some 25 years later I continue to improve, but it's impossible to pinpoint why. I rarely practice, maybe a few hours a week on a good week. I have weekly rehearsals which last 5 hours but rarely do we play more than an hour because some douche or other needs another weed break.
I believe that the main source of improvement and inspiration for me now is meeting new people, discovering their influences, sitting down with some new music and picking it apart. The rest seems to happen behind the scenes.
Anyway I suppose my point is: don't think so much about it. You already seem to think quite highly about yourself, at least that you're doing alright.
Now some 25 years later I continue to improve, but it's impossible to pinpoint why. I rarely practice, maybe a few hours a week on a good week. I have weekly rehearsals which last 5 hours but rarely do we play more than an hour because some douche or other needs another weed break.
I believe that the main source of improvement and inspiration for me now is meeting new people, discovering their influences, sitting down with some new music and picking it apart. The rest seems to happen behind the scenes.
Anyway I suppose my point is: don't think so much about it. You already seem to think quite highly about yourself, at least that you're doing alright.
- Oct 7, 2000
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I want to second what @bass12 said. Find musicians better than yourself to play with. And play with as many people (especially drummers) as you possibly can. You can grow in leaps and bounds playing with drummers of all levels, including (and especially) drummers who really suck. That's experience you can't get off of YouTube, nor sitting next to even the greatest teacher in the world.
The only other thing I'd add is to practice playing with emotion. Think in terms of playing music as opposed to playing notes. Work at becoming that person that can make any bass sound like a $10,000 instrument. I think being a great musician has a lot more to do with how much emotion you can put into a single note than how many notes you can play in 5 seconds.
And while this doesn't have anything to do with actual playing, if you want to go as far as you can as a musician - work on yourself as a human being. The people who get the best gigs and best breaks aren't the most talented people. They're the people who are the most dependable, the easiest to get along with, and the ones that people want to be around. Jaco couldn't get any work in the last couple of years of his life.
The only other thing I'd add is to practice playing with emotion. Think in terms of playing music as opposed to playing notes. Work at becoming that person that can make any bass sound like a $10,000 instrument. I think being a great musician has a lot more to do with how much emotion you can put into a single note than how many notes you can play in 5 seconds.
And while this doesn't have anything to do with actual playing, if you want to go as far as you can as a musician - work on yourself as a human being. The people who get the best gigs and best breaks aren't the most talented people. They're the people who are the most dependable, the easiest to get along with, and the ones that people want to be around. Jaco couldn't get any work in the last couple of years of his life.
A few thoughts, offered in the spirit of helping out:
1. Practice one hour in the morning and one hour at night -- this is like two days of practice. No more than this is necessary from a technical point of view, and more can lead to athletic injuries.
2. Learn to practice in your mind instead of on your instrument. Visualize practice. It's equal to physical practice because it trains the same neurons.
3. Take one lick to bed with you at night. Work on it in your mind instead of counting sheep. You will fall asleep more easily, and in the morning you will likely be able to play it!
4. If you don't know why you are practicing, stop immediately and figure out why. Mindless practice is a waste of time, and you could be doing something useful like cleaning the house instead.
5. Learn to sing well and learn to play keyboards -- I don't think you can reach your full potential without these tools, plus you will get more gigs. Singing and playing bass, especially, will stretch your mind and your technique in new ways.
6. Transcribe every day for half of the time you practice. This will train your ear, your mind and your patience. You will also learn a lot of songs, which will get you more gigs.
7. Turn on a Spotify playlist and play along with whatever comes up. This is great for learning how to fake a tune. It sharpens your ears and teaches you how to float instead of sink when you don't know the changes. You might hear something new that you like, too.
8. If your skills are way above what you need for the gig, you should find a more demanding group to play with. Strive to be the worst musician in the group.
9. Polish your character -- it's what you are delivering when you play. Pay special attention to your personal spiritual practice -- it's more important than the instrument. If you don't have a practice, start one.
10. Success is not equal to achieving something. Success is daily progress toward a worthwhile goal.
Best of luck!
1. Practice one hour in the morning and one hour at night -- this is like two days of practice. No more than this is necessary from a technical point of view, and more can lead to athletic injuries.
2. Learn to practice in your mind instead of on your instrument. Visualize practice. It's equal to physical practice because it trains the same neurons.
3. Take one lick to bed with you at night. Work on it in your mind instead of counting sheep. You will fall asleep more easily, and in the morning you will likely be able to play it!
4. If you don't know why you are practicing, stop immediately and figure out why. Mindless practice is a waste of time, and you could be doing something useful like cleaning the house instead.
5. Learn to sing well and learn to play keyboards -- I don't think you can reach your full potential without these tools, plus you will get more gigs. Singing and playing bass, especially, will stretch your mind and your technique in new ways.
6. Transcribe every day for half of the time you practice. This will train your ear, your mind and your patience. You will also learn a lot of songs, which will get you more gigs.
7. Turn on a Spotify playlist and play along with whatever comes up. This is great for learning how to fake a tune. It sharpens your ears and teaches you how to float instead of sink when you don't know the changes. You might hear something new that you like, too.
8. If your skills are way above what you need for the gig, you should find a more demanding group to play with. Strive to be the worst musician in the group.
9. Polish your character -- it's what you are delivering when you play. Pay special attention to your personal spiritual practice -- it's more important than the instrument. If you don't have a practice, start one.
10. Success is not equal to achieving something. Success is daily progress toward a worthwhile goal.
Best of luck!
Here's what I'll offer:
The reason the jazz guys that came out of the 40's and 70's were (and are, Sonny Rollins is still around) is because it's how they ate. They didn't get high, eat, or sleep unless they were good enough to have strangers pay to hear them play. Same thing goes for Jaco and Wooten.
For guys like that, it's more than wanting to be good. It's wanting to survive.
The reason the jazz guys that came out of the 40's and 70's were (and are, Sonny Rollins is still around) is because it's how they ate. They didn't get high, eat, or sleep unless they were good enough to have strangers pay to hear them play. Same thing goes for Jaco and Wooten.
For guys like that, it's more than wanting to be good. It's wanting to survive.
Very much agree.
Seek out challenges in the musical realm beyond bass specific stuff. I recently picked up a 2nd hand guitar for noodling and it's been a real musical shot in the arm.
Sight reading is hard work, but it's huge.
My theory fundamentals are rather scattered and I'm still working on filling in the holes that I never learned as a kid. Understanding more of the language gives me a greater potential to "speak" it.
You'll probably only recognize your personal milestones after you pass them. Stay hungry and enjoy the ride. If you get to feeling burned out and the thrill has taken a vacation, put it away for a little chunk of time. When you pick it up again, you may be amazed with the fresh approach your subconscious has cooked up on its own.
This question has been asked many times of great musicians on forums and in interviews. Here are some of the answers...
1. Pat Metheny -- worked at it for 14 hours a day for as long as it took to be excellent. He said he doesn't know anyone who is truly great who didn't pay their dues in that way. He doesn't practice anymore, other than to warm up.
2. Jamie Aebersold (famous jazz EDUCATOR)-- Charlie Parker (sax) practiced for 14 hours a day, but for an unknown length of time. Aebersold claims that being excellent is only partly a matter of talent -- that practice is key. Aebersold even published a CD called "Anyone can improvise" which is an expression of that.
3. Marcus Miller -- he said 2-3 hours a day for 3 years to be COMPETENT on bass -- but not great.
As far as how your body influences your excellence as a musician. I do think that has some impact on the path you take to excellence, but it's not a deal breaker for being really really good if you adapt to it.
Example -- David Gilmour (Pink Floyd guitarist) -- he admitted he is not a technical player -- he doesn't play fast, he said, he's melodic. So he achieved excellence without the speed of Al DiMeola. He also achieved his greatness through his tone. Steve Rodby, long time bassist with Pat Metheny group barely took a solo in that band, but he was capable of doing good complementary work underneath anything the band came up with. So, he made it into the upper ranks of bassists professionally by being truly supportive of the band as a whole, but not a front man at any time (Compare him to Richard Bona with that group!!). I also hear he was a phenomenal producer/coordinator with the band. This earned him an important chair on the jazz scene, playing with one of the best groups out there at the time for jazz.
Wes Montgomery has an interesting story -- he had this technique of playing softly. It came about due to limitations on how loud he could play in his apartment! So he had to get rid of his pick and use his fingers in spots.
So, each person needs to take their own path to greatness. For me, my prevalence on the local scene is actually a result of my writing and my business ability. I am not a top of the scene player, although I do get calls from a couple other people very occasionally. My strength is in putting the right people into the right situation to get repeat bookings, and milking their strengths. I seem to be able to write songs that people like, and that people say are "are neat".
1. Pat Metheny -- worked at it for 14 hours a day for as long as it took to be excellent. He said he doesn't know anyone who is truly great who didn't pay their dues in that way. He doesn't practice anymore, other than to warm up.
2. Jamie Aebersold (famous jazz EDUCATOR)-- Charlie Parker (sax) practiced for 14 hours a day, but for an unknown length of time. Aebersold claims that being excellent is only partly a matter of talent -- that practice is key. Aebersold even published a CD called "Anyone can improvise" which is an expression of that.
3. Marcus Miller -- he said 2-3 hours a day for 3 years to be COMPETENT on bass -- but not great.
As far as how your body influences your excellence as a musician. I do think that has some impact on the path you take to excellence, but it's not a deal breaker for being really really good if you adapt to it.
Example -- David Gilmour (Pink Floyd guitarist) -- he admitted he is not a technical player -- he doesn't play fast, he said, he's melodic. So he achieved excellence without the speed of Al DiMeola. He also achieved his greatness through his tone. Steve Rodby, long time bassist with Pat Metheny group barely took a solo in that band, but he was capable of doing good complementary work underneath anything the band came up with. So, he made it into the upper ranks of bassists professionally by being truly supportive of the band as a whole, but not a front man at any time (Compare him to Richard Bona with that group!!). I also hear he was a phenomenal producer/coordinator with the band. This earned him an important chair on the jazz scene, playing with one of the best groups out there at the time for jazz.
Wes Montgomery has an interesting story -- he had this technique of playing softly. It came about due to limitations on how loud he could play in his apartment! So he had to get rid of his pick and use his fingers in spots.
So, each person needs to take their own path to greatness. For me, my prevalence on the local scene is actually a result of my writing and my business ability. I am not a top of the scene player, although I do get calls from a couple other people very occasionally. My strength is in putting the right people into the right situation to get repeat bookings, and milking their strengths. I seem to be able to write songs that people like, and that people say are "are neat".
How many years it takes to find the perfect woman? Exactly no one knows. You people think there is a fact to this; well you are right. The fact is YOU need to practice and it's up to YOU how good you are. As far as how long it takes, maybe it never stops. Maybe being that good is never stop trying to better and challenge yourself. Look at GSP before he left MMA; he said the reason he is where he is that he constantly pushed the envelope and challenged himself.
Here are the rules for advancement:
It takes as long as it takes. Some people are smarter/more gifted in ways so it takes them less time than others to learn certain things.
There are many facets of playing. Each requires it's own separate study and practice. You can be well rounded with a broad range of skills or particularly focused in one technique/style. Your choice.
All the skills and technique in the world are virtually useless if other players don't want to be around you. Make it a priority to be a nice person and have a good attitude. A player with mediocre skills and a fantastic friendly disposition will be far more successful in the long run than a mediocre personality and fantastic expertise. (see Jeff Berlin)
Also, on that note: One skill in-particular, (locking in with other players) cannot be practiced alone. Always play with others every opportunity you get. You will learn more than you ever dreamed this way.
It takes as long as it takes. Some people are smarter/more gifted in ways so it takes them less time than others to learn certain things.
There are many facets of playing. Each requires it's own separate study and practice. You can be well rounded with a broad range of skills or particularly focused in one technique/style. Your choice.
All the skills and technique in the world are virtually useless if other players don't want to be around you. Make it a priority to be a nice person and have a good attitude. A player with mediocre skills and a fantastic friendly disposition will be far more successful in the long run than a mediocre personality and fantastic expertise. (see Jeff Berlin)
Also, on that note: One skill in-particular, (locking in with other players) cannot be practiced alone. Always play with others every opportunity you get. You will learn more than you ever dreamed this way.
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Excellence isn't just technique, it's having a unique concept regarding music... Sting for example, isn't a note kind of player, but his timing and space between the notes is provocative. Even Wooten's technique isn't the final word in his playing... He had a concept first. Sometimes you have to "play a lot to sound like yourself..." Play, and listen to what you're hearing, then you'll find your thing... Charlie Parker said he could hear something when he started, but he couldn't play it... Or words to that effect...
I absolutely love Michel! Of the limitations he had to overcome however, hand size was not one of them. His hands were normal size.
Love the Brazilian stuff he did and the Wayne Shorter/Jim Hall collaborations always stay heavily in my rotation.
I've been a professional musician (bass and guitar) for over 40 years, and have never once been asked to play Donna Lee, or anything like that. I've made a lot of money playing Proud Mary, Brown Eyed Girl, the Chicken Dance, and various Basie charts, as well as Rocky Top and Last Date. Your results may vary...
Also, you have to create a sound that when people hear it, they know its you. That has to be true even though they've never heard the song before.
Here are some examles
Marcus Miller
Jaco
David Gilmour
Santana
Jeff Beck
NOt all bass players but you get the idea. Here are vocalists you could recognize right away even though you'd never heard the song before
Michael Jackson
Rod Stewart
Manhatten Transfer
Here are some examles
Marcus Miller
Jaco
David Gilmour
Santana
Jeff Beck
NOt all bass players but you get the idea. Here are vocalists you could recognize right away even though you'd never heard the song before
Michael Jackson
Rod Stewart
Manhatten Transfer
