Also burning just a bit of something illegal in many states when it was time to get rolling, but that's just me.
believe me, you're not the only one!
Sometimes the studio can seem a bit clinical. This can help.
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How to capture raw, organic sound in the studio
- Thread starter Mr Orange_
- Start date
believe me, you're not the only one!
Sometimes the studio can seem a bit clinical. This can help.
I say this as--with day jobs and all--it's important to change one's mindset from hum-drum to 'let's rock!' This can be a useful tool in 'turning the switch,' as I call it.
Are you working with engineers that have done records you like/have the feel you are after?
If not, why?
If not, why?
The more you learn about the recording process the better able you'll be to pick a studio and engineer for the results you want. Here's the first part of 6 vids from legendary engineer George Massenburg where he sets up a band for live off the floor recording.
- Apr 19, 2004
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- Endorsing Artist: Conklin Guitars (Basses)
If your drummer cant rock it in the studio your recording is gonna suck. He has to own it even if hes playing to a click. Energy needs to be there.
The only way to get a stay experience is with a stay documenting. Have your guy throw up all the amplifiers into different audio managed bedrooms and perform the music stay. If the audio you get from that is empty the studio room needs better devices or coaching.
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I have worked in studios for years. As 1st,second engineer, mastering and even duplication. It is not so easy to just spout out certain basic track recording setups without hearing your music.
You do need a good feel in your performance but the magic is and always will be, always was in the hands of the engineers and to some extent, the rooms. If possible shop engineers/producers. Either with enough experience and with a reputation and/or engineer/musician.
I can guarantee if you find that engineering talent, all you would have to do is describe what you want it to sound like and, like you have done, give an example.
There are engineers in the biz that are known for doing just that (capturing a high energy,almost live 'feel').
I have worked with a few GREAT ones. And they don't have to be famous high-priced, out of touch engineers. Ask around,do some research and pick your engineering staff carefully. Some of these people work multiple studios to obtain multiple sounds, example: certain rooms will give that RATM type of sound. A good engineer will know his/her rooms.
As musicians we should be able to let the engineer do their magic as the musicians do theirs. It is difficult to have to worry that the person behind the glass does not get what you want the final product to sound like. If you find a trusted pro you can do that. It does help to, as a musicain, know your way around a studio. But what I have seen too many times, we musicians think we are experts in the studio and sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous. If you can get an engineer you can trust with good ears your good!
You do need a good feel in your performance but the magic is and always will be, always was in the hands of the engineers and to some extent, the rooms. If possible shop engineers/producers. Either with enough experience and with a reputation and/or engineer/musician.
I can guarantee if you find that engineering talent, all you would have to do is describe what you want it to sound like and, like you have done, give an example.
There are engineers in the biz that are known for doing just that (capturing a high energy,almost live 'feel').
I have worked with a few GREAT ones. And they don't have to be famous high-priced, out of touch engineers. Ask around,do some research and pick your engineering staff carefully. Some of these people work multiple studios to obtain multiple sounds, example: certain rooms will give that RATM type of sound. A good engineer will know his/her rooms.
As musicians we should be able to let the engineer do their magic as the musicians do theirs. It is difficult to have to worry that the person behind the glass does not get what you want the final product to sound like. If you find a trusted pro you can do that. It does help to, as a musicain, know your way around a studio. But what I have seen too many times, we musicians think we are experts in the studio and sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous. If you can get an engineer you can trust with good ears your good!
+1! I do a little bit of engineering myself, and the worst thing to see is a musician insisting on using a certain mic or technique that does not coincide with the overall sound of the album that they are after. But hey, all we can do is give suggestions.
Agreed^
Before I worked the engineering side of the glass, I was recording an EP at a fairly large studio in the northeast. Someone told me about an effect called an aural exciter. They said it would make any recording sound amazing.
Yup, I insisted they put it on the final dub to 2-track. The studio had a similar effect but I wanted a certain brand so they had to rent it.
I cringe to this day when I hear that useless sizzle that effect put on the final mix!
Before I worked the engineering side of the glass, I was recording an EP at a fairly large studio in the northeast. Someone told me about an effect called an aural exciter. They said it would make any recording sound amazing.
Yup, I insisted they put it on the final dub to 2-track. The studio had a similar effect but I wanted a certain brand so they had to rent it.
I cringe to this day when I hear that useless sizzle that effect put on the final mix!
I totally agree with Rooster and Rootsnfifths.
Most all the engineers I know are musicians, but it is 2 very different hats.
I too (back before I was engineering) asked for things that were totally not right for what I actually wanted.
I also didn't know how to explain what I thought I wanted.
Being on the engineering side I have seen this a few times, and sometimes you just give the client what they ask for, as Rooster said:"all we can do is give suggestions".
I think it is important to find and work with engineers/producers that has done things in the vein you are looking to do. Sit down and discuss at length your ideas and desired outcome with them, get a good feel for it on both sides.
I doubt I would ask Devin Townsend to produce a Traditional Style Blue Grass record, even though he is great at what he does.
The right tools for the job...
Most all the engineers I know are musicians, but it is 2 very different hats.
I too (back before I was engineering) asked for things that were totally not right for what I actually wanted.
I also didn't know how to explain what I thought I wanted.
Being on the engineering side I have seen this a few times, and sometimes you just give the client what they ask for, as Rooster said:"all we can do is give suggestions".
I think it is important to find and work with engineers/producers that has done things in the vein you are looking to do. Sit down and discuss at length your ideas and desired outcome with them, get a good feel for it on both sides.
I doubt I would ask Devin Townsend to produce a Traditional Style Blue Grass record, even though he is great at what he does.
The right tools for the job...
I've been an engineer and producer for 20+ years. Capturing that 'live' feel is hard but not so hard if you do a few things.
1. Everyone play together. You need to see each other as well as hear each other. You can't massage a poor performance after the fact. Get it right the first time, leave the endless computer editing to the amateurs.
2. Mistakes are your friend. Leave them in, unless they are extremely obvious clams. A drum fill in the wrong section? A questionable bass run? Leave them in, they greatly help remove any clinical sound. - As long as they don't ruin the feel of the song. If you are the one playing the 'mistake' you might recuse yourself from the voting.
3. Make sure you have your arrangements down. Pre-production is truly where records are made. Get everything worked out that you can before you hit the studio. Assuming good tunes then great records are about 2 things: the arrangement and the performance.
4. When you are in the studio the tape should constantly be going. Record everything. When you listen you are listening for feel, not for 'correctness'.
5. Gear is very secondary to the above. The greatest room and gear in the world won't do anything for a bad tune and arrangement.
6. Find an engineer/producer that shares your same vision. Be prepared to pay for it. The engineer is there to help you get your vision, a good engineer understands this and will ask questions to help you and him/her arrive at the destination. But you should also ask questions and work hard to communicate clearly what you need. Always bring reference CD's.
1. Everyone play together. You need to see each other as well as hear each other. You can't massage a poor performance after the fact. Get it right the first time, leave the endless computer editing to the amateurs.
2. Mistakes are your friend. Leave them in, unless they are extremely obvious clams. A drum fill in the wrong section? A questionable bass run? Leave them in, they greatly help remove any clinical sound. - As long as they don't ruin the feel of the song. If you are the one playing the 'mistake' you might recuse yourself from the voting.
3. Make sure you have your arrangements down. Pre-production is truly where records are made. Get everything worked out that you can before you hit the studio. Assuming good tunes then great records are about 2 things: the arrangement and the performance.
4. When you are in the studio the tape should constantly be going. Record everything. When you listen you are listening for feel, not for 'correctness'.
5. Gear is very secondary to the above. The greatest room and gear in the world won't do anything for a bad tune and arrangement.
6. Find an engineer/producer that shares your same vision. Be prepared to pay for it. The engineer is there to help you get your vision, a good engineer understands this and will ask questions to help you and him/her arrive at the destination. But you should also ask questions and work hard to communicate clearly what you need. Always bring reference CD's.
Yep!...and a great tune/arrangement in a bad room with bad gear wont do anything for you either
But it will still be a great tune and arrangement. As a record producer I'd much rather have shortcomings in my gear and room choices than in the source material.
Freekmagnet
Commercial User
You don't necessarily have to give up being true to your DIY virtues; just find an engineer who both embraces the DIY aesthetic and his ****.
Put a Zoom H4 or H4N in the room.
Get someone with experience and ability to do so.
The ABSOLUTE BEST capture of a band's sound was seeing and hearing Cosimo Matassa( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosimo_Matassa ) do his thing. When we experienced this, 101 FM in New Orleans was doing LIVE broadcasts and some with him at the helm in a studio he was familiar with. He would walk into the room after everything was set up and mic'd and say "Play a song" or "Play something". After about 30 seconds or so he would say "OK. That's good." and walk back into the control room to DUPLICATE WHAT HE HEARD IN THE ROOM with the band. With other bands including Crack The Sky(original line up), what came over your radio in stereo was what the band sounded like in person.
Get someone with experience and ability to do so.
The ABSOLUTE BEST capture of a band's sound was seeing and hearing Cosimo Matassa( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosimo_Matassa ) do his thing. When we experienced this, 101 FM in New Orleans was doing LIVE broadcasts and some with him at the helm in a studio he was familiar with. He would walk into the room after everything was set up and mic'd and say "Play a song" or "Play something". After about 30 seconds or so he would say "OK. That's good." and walk back into the control room to DUPLICATE WHAT HE HEARD IN THE ROOM with the band. With other bands including Crack The Sky(original line up), what came over your radio in stereo was what the band sounded like in person.
