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How to cut through the band?

Dirk Rockbottom

Dirk Rockbottom

Oct 30, 2012
395
156
#1
I just started playing with a country/classic rock 5-piece band (2 guitars, keys, drums, me). After listening to a recording of our 2nd gig, I would like my bass to be more defined. For example, when I play a lick, it just sounds muddy. I play a Fender Jazz but don't like the tone knob up. Just sounds crappy to me. My bass setting is bridge pup at 10 and neck pup at about half. Tone knob all the way down. My rig is a Fender Rumble 200 with one 15" speaker. My strings are D'addario nickel wound .50 .65 .85 .105. What I'm considering is getting a lighter set of strings, say .45 - .100 but hate to go through another setup adjustment on my axe (intonation, neck rod, bridge). At the gig, I had all my amp tone knobs flat (12 o'clock) with the bass up to about one o'clock. Should I turn my bass knob down and up my treble and high midrange? I just would like more definition for next gig, but At the same time I understand my responsibility to provide a solid bottom.
Thanks, Dirk
 
#2
Since I don't know what is your setting on the amp, I'll start with what I have. Try to turn the tone up to the middle position on the bass and also try a song or two all the way up listen to the next recording of a gig to see if that has made a difference in the lack of definition. If not, try lowering the bass and add mid on the amp and listen to see if that helps...
 
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#3
FrenchBassQC said:
Since I don't know what is your setting on the amp, I'll start with what I have. Try to turn the tone up to the middle position on the bass and also try a song or two all the way up listen to the next recording of a gig to see if that has made a difference in the lack of definition. If not, try lowering the bass and add mid on the amp and listen to see if that helps...
Click to expand...
Thanks. Yes, I think my bass knob was just over the middle and everything else middle. There is also a button that increases brightness. I'll try these and if it doesn't do anything, will probably switch to brighter strings.
 
#6
It's very difficult to get note definition on a passive bass if the tone knob is rolled off all the way. It sounds good when you are at home by yourself, but it's not the best way to get a "point" on your notes in a band. You can roll off some tone to varying degrees, but there has to be some high to mid-high content to project what you're doing. A good part of the high-end content on the bass will get eaten up by guitars, keys, and cymbals but what remains will be heard as defined note information to the listening audience as well as the band.

An opened up tone knob may sound unappealing to certain ears, but it's important to remember that what you hear out of your amp onstage isn't an exact representation of what others will hear. From 20 feet away, it's going to be different to those occupying that space.
 
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#8
1. Switch out to chrome flats, let them settle in for a couple of weeks. Your patience will be rewarded... The twang goes away and you get a really nice defined steely thump. Outstanding for country/blues/roots... They feel nice too!

2. Turn the friggen' tone control up! You're losing all your highs and upper mids! That's where definition lives.

3. If you don't dig the clack, turn down the treble and high mids to compensate at the amp. If you can't find the offensive fret clack, it is often between 1.5 and 2.5 k. An EQ pedal might help you zero in. Parametric if you have the patience for it. Not hard to use but there is a learning curve.

I'm not in love with the Rumble but it isn't terrible. I find 1 x15 combo's to be kinda boomy. Usually the cab is sized small for portability and not large for tonality. IMO that is the case with the a rumble. Could I gig with one? Absolutely. It would be in line for an upgrade if I were gigging one a lot though...

4. You didn't mention which Fender J. If it's a squire, then move up the chain. Upgrading it is a losing proposition. If it's a MIM with stock pickups, an upgrade could be in order. If it's a bass with better pickups than those I've mentioned. You can probably skip the upgrade.

5. When you can do it. Demo a Lakland 44-01. I've done a ton of country and blues/roots dates with one and frankly it is hard to find a bad sound on that bass... Mine has Chromes. Most of my dates are done with a GK mB2-500 and 2 1x10's and a line into the PA.
 
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#9
image.jpg
 
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#10
Are both guitar players playing barre chords and is the keys player playing with his hands an octave apart, so he's down in your range a lot? With 2 guitars and keys, you won't be able to carve out any room until they learn how to work together sound wise. The problem isn't you, it's them.

But, yeah, flats and a mute and a lot of power will work. You don't need to cut as much as sound different...
 
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#11
20db pad said:
It's very difficult to get note definition on a passive bass if the tone knob is rolled off all the way. It sounds good when you are at home by yourself, but it's not the best way to get a "point" on your notes in a band. You can roll off some tone to varying degrees, but there has to be some high to mid-high content to project what you're doing. A good part of the high-end content on the bass will get eaten up by guitars, keys, and cymbals but what remains will be heard as defined note information to the listening audience as well as the band.

An opened up tone knob may sound unappealing to certain ears, but it's important to remember that what you hear out of your amp onstage isn't an exact representation of what others will hear. From 20 feet away, it's going to be different to those occupying that space.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. Thanks.
 
#13
Thanks. It's a Jazz MIM not a Squier. I tried "upgrading" the pups twice - once with SD hotstacks and once with Bartolinis but they never sounded as loud and nice as the original factory set so I put the originals back in.
I think you're on to something about the tone knob. I also think it sounds better in the band with both pups at 10. Hate the sound of the neck by itself, but both together is not bad. Bridge by itself sounds better at home, but too weak with the band. I tried chrome flats once, but thought they were way too mellow sounding. I don't understand how chrome flats would sound punchier than rounds. ?
 
#14
Dirk Rockbottom said:
Thanks. It's a Jazz MIM not a Squier. I tried "upgrading" the pups twice - once with SD hotstacks and once with Bartolinis but they never sounded as loud and nice as the original factory set so I put the originals back in.
I think you're on to something about the tone knob. I also think it sounds better in the band with both pups at 10. Hate the sound of the neck by itself, but both together is not bad. Bridge by itself sounds better at home, but too weak with the band. I tried chrome flats once, but thought they were way too mellow sounding. I don't understand how chrome flats would sound punchier than rounds. ?
Click to expand...

Flats have a punch and sound of their own - there always seemed to be a little more low-mid information in them and while they aren't as hi-fi sounding as rounds, the argument can be made that a wide, full range sound doesn't always mix well with a band. As always, some styles of music really call for round wounds.

On a Jazz bass, both pickups up all the way is a popular and pretty sound, but mixing the two pickups full blast causes a midrange dip that can cost you some definition at band volumes. There does have to be some "ugly" tonal content to cut through. I usually cut the bridge pickup volume a little bit to get rid of the mid cut that happens when you crank both pickups. I still use both pickups full up for slap lines, though.
 
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#15
I used to be in a very similar predicament. Fender jazz, flats, tone knob off, Fender rumble 150 amp. Just mud, so much mud. Everyone will tell you crank the tone knob and dial in more mids. Yes you'll cut through, but it won't be "your tone" cutting through. I fixed it by upgrading NY rig. More powerful amp, and more/better speakers. A lot of my mud was coming from pushing the amp and speakers into varying levels of distortion. Its amazing how much clean headroom and multiple efficient drivers can help you cut through. I still play a jazz style bass with flats, very scooped sound, not a lot of mid/treble content... but my 500 watt amp and 4 quality 10" speakers still let my playing come through clearly.

Again, not the popular opinion on TB, but might help you cut through without sacrificing your sound.
 
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#20
Dirk Rockbottom said:
I just started playing with a country/classic rock 5-piece band (2 guitars, keys, drums, me). After listening to a recording of our 2nd gig, I would like my bass to be more defined. For example, when I play a lick, it just sounds muddy. I play a Fender Jazz but don't like the tone knob up. Just sounds crappy to me. My bass setting is bridge pup at 10 and neck pup at about half. Tone knob all the way down. My rig is a Fender Rumble 200 with one 15" speaker. My strings are D'addario nickel wound .50 .65 .85 .105. What I'm considering is getting a lighter set of strings, say .45 - .100 but hate to go through another setup adjustment on my axe (intonation, neck rod, bridge). At the gig, I had all my amp tone knobs flat (12 o'clock) with the bass up to about one o'clock. Should I turn my bass knob down and up my treble and high midrange? I just would like more definition for next gig, but At the same time I understand my responsibility to provide a solid bottom.
Thanks, Dirk
Click to expand...
A Rumble 200 with one 15" ? unless you are going through a good P.A. or house system. I would say you need some power and air being driven. When I played with a full group- variety dance band i played a swr 750x and a 4x10 or two of them! there is your answer. If power is not needed, get a outboard Preamp. Aguilar tone hammer: this will fatten up your line in substantially.
 
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