How to do that?

[adam.beauchene]

You may be right about them being masters of their craft but as I witnessed in a lot of videos on YouTube even great builders like Mike Tobias are using routers(Router tables), templates and stuff like that to make the process faster and or more accurate . I'm not talking about cnc, I guess cnc routers and boutique basses don't fit anyway.

Not to stray too far off topic, but I fail to see how CNC machines can't be 'boutique.' I just did my first two commissioned builds, pure one-offs of my own design, designed using CAD and executed on my CNC machine. Every step from design to finish is done by me, all the CNC machine does is make certain aspects more accurate; if anything, it takes me longer to do a build now because designing carved tops and neck backs in CAD takes longer than just doing one by hand.

I'm not renowned for what I do (yet), so I won't call my little operation 'boutique,' but I'm certainly not banging them out by the thousands just because there is a CNC involved. I hope that my instruments, as any of ours here in the LC, are judged for what they ARE, not how they came to be.

/Rant

Now, back to some lovely Foderas, and homages thereto.

 

[bassictraining]

What I gather from shop photos is that Fodera makes their own shaping tools custom suited to their applications. Carving blades with curved ends.

Foderas are masterpieces. My bass....well, it's awesome for a first attempt and I am super happy with it. Even if it wasn't done in an amish fashion. Lol

 

[Bruce Johnson]

There are a lot of different tools you can use for complex 3-D shaping like that. In some places, I use routers in special fixtures. In others I free-hand it with an electric 4 1/2" angle grinder fitted with a 60 grit sanding disk. In smaller areas, my favorite tool is a Makita electric die grinder, which is like a big, heavy version of a Dremel. For tiny areas, I use a Dremel.

Those power tools remove most of the wood and bring it close to the shape. Then I go at it with bent files. If you didn't know it, you can easily twist and bend ordinary files to any shape you need, using a propane torch. Bent files are wonderful tools for truing up the surface and bringing it to the final shape.

After filing, I use custom scrapers and sandpaper to remove the file marks and get to the final surface finish.

Advanced Lutherie is all about making your own special tools to solve particular problems.

I've posted this before, but here's a link to a series of web pages of mine, showing the step by step process of how I build the necks of my Series IV Scroll Basses. The headstocks require a lot of complex carving and shaping. You can see most of the fixtures and special tools that I use.

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingneck1.html

But, don't be daunted by all of the stuff. Start with one tool at a time, figuring out the best way to work each problem. There are many possible solutions. I'm constantly updating my processes as I figure out new tricks and tools.

And don't forget to write down what you did, so that you'll remember it next time!

 

[suraj]

^^I went through everything on your website and god you are awesome..!! Everything is so precisely and neatly done. More importantly, the basses look far from the standard designs with all your complex manufacturing technics that are quite different from others..Bravo..! Now back to the thread

 

[amadeusex]

Not to stray too far off topic, but I fail to see how CNC machines can't be 'boutique.' I just did my first two commissioned builds, pure one-offs of my own design, designed using CAD and executed on my CNC machine. Every step from design to finish is done by me, all the CNC machine does is make certain aspects more accurate; if anything, it takes me longer to do a build now because designing carved tops and neck backs in CAD takes longer than just doing one by hand.

I'm not renowned for what I do (yet), so I won't call my little operation 'boutique,' but I'm certainly not banging them out by the thousands just because there is a CNC involved. I hope that my instruments, as any of ours here in the LC, are judged for what they ARE, not how they came to be.

/Rant

Now, back to some lovely Foderas, and homages thereto.

You're absolutely right.

The only thing that matters is the result and not the way/technology used to get there.

In fact I have access to a cnc machine and it was really tempting to use it, but it would take the fun part out. At least that's what I think.

Thanks for your input !

 

[amadeusex]

There are a lot of different tools you can use for complex 3-D shaping like that. In some places, I use routers in special fixtures. In others I free-hand it with an electric 4 1/2" angle grinder fitted with a 60 grit sanding disk. In smaller areas, my favorite tool is a Makita electric die grinder, which is like a big, heavy version of a Dremel. For tiny areas, I use a Dremel.

Those power tools remove most of the wood and bring it close to the shape. Then I go at it with bent files. If you didn't know it, you can easily twist and bend ordinary files to any shape you need, using a propane torch. Bent files are wonderful tools for truing up the surface and bringing it to the final shape.

After filing, I use custom scrapers and sandpaper to remove the file marks and get to the final surface finish.

Advanced Lutherie is all about making your own special tools to solve particular problems.

I've posted this before, but here's a link to a series of web pages of mine, showing the step by step process of how I build the necks of my Series IV Scroll Basses. The headstocks require a lot of complex carving and shaping. You can see most of the fixtures and special tools that I use.

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingneck1.html

But, don't be daunted by all of the stuff. Start with one tool at a time, figuring out the best way to work each problem. There are many possible solutions. I'm constantly updating my processes as I figure out new tricks and tools.

And don't forget to write down what you did, so that you'll remember it next time!

Thanks a lot man !

I just watched your building the neck pictorial, and i'm blown away !
Very neat ! Thanks for sharing dude, you rock !

 

[Meatrus]

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingneck1.html

That was a great read! I wanted to see some of the finished basses but none of the other pages (except the neck tutorial) on your site working. Is that just my computer, or are they down?

Oh and writing it downs a very good idea! I carved one of those transitions a few months back and the memories of how I did it are already fading! I do remember I cut steps with the router free hand first then carved the edges off with a chisel to make them slope, then hours of sanding etc.

 

[amadeusex]

That was a great read! I wanted to see some of the finished basses but none of the other pages (except the neck tutorial) on your site working. Is that just my computer, or are they down?

Oh and writing it downs a very good idea! I carved one of those transitions a few months back and the memories of how I did it are already fading! I do remember I cut steps with the router free hand first then carved the edges off with a chisel to make them slope, then hours of sanding etc.

I had the same issue. Going back to http://www.xstrange.com resolved it

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I should have mentioned that those pages showing the construction of my basses are a new section that I drafted up and put on the server, but never finished and linked in with my main site. Now, they are actually obsolete. The Series IV model Scroll Basses shown in those pages are out of production for now, and I'm not taking any new orders for them. I'm soon going to be reworking those pages to show my latest models. My whole web site is way, way out of date.

If you're curious, here's the matching sections showing the construction of the Series IV bodies and pickup systems. I never finished the ones on the metal hardware and the paint.

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingbody1.html
http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingpickups1.html

And here's the Gallery page showing a finished Series IV AUB-2:
http://www.xstrange.com/Gallery/AUB067.html

 

[amadeusex]

I should have mentioned that those pages showing the construction of my basses are a new section that I drafted up and put on the server, but never finished and linked in with my main site. Now, they are actually obsolete. The Series IV model Scroll Basses shown in those pages are out of production for now, and I'm not taking any new orders for them. I'm soon going to be reworking those pages to show my latest models. My whole web site is way, way out of date.

If you're curious, here's the matching sections showing the construction of the Series IV bodies and pickup systems. I never finished the ones on the metal hardware and the paint.

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingbody1.html
http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingpickups1.html

And here's the Gallery page showing a finished Series IV AUB-2:
http://www.xstrange.com/Gallery/AUB067.html

Nice man, thanks a lot !

 

[curbowkid]

The guys at fodera use nothing but hand tools for shaping. Rasp, file, curved tip rasps and files, small hand planers, scrapers, sandpaper, carving knife. That's it. The rest is just years of experience and a good eye. Measure twice, cut once. Once its gone, it can't be put back

 

[Rickett Customs]

Measure twice, cut once. Once its gone, it can't be put back

Unless you're really good

 

[Rickett Customs]

Except for the YYS Right? Oh wait, that's paint, isn't it.

No you haven't. We do not stain our instruments.

Jason

 

[curbowkid]

Unless you're really good

True true carl thompson has a video on youtube of a bass that got messed up in production slightly, and they fixed it, by taking more off! Its a good video series. About 9 videos

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Carving complex shapes doesn't require you to be born with some magical wizard skill. It's technique with tools that you learn with practice. It really isn't that hard.

You can carve body transitions, neck shapes and headstocks completely with hand tools, if you like. The power tools just make it quicker to remove the bulk of the wood.

One thing that often isn't mentioned in discussions about carving is that you always need to be working to some kind of lines or reference marks. You don't just look at a block of wood with one eye closed and your thumb up, and whack away at it! You figure out what shape you want it to be before you touch the tools, and use pencil layout lines, cardboard gauges, and whatever else you can think of to constantly check how much wood you're removing and where. You have to know where you're going.

In my pages about the Scroll Bass necks, you can see how I'm constantly using gauges and templates to give me lines to work to. My system of shaping the back of the neck in five flat facets may seem like extra work, but it actually saves time overall. If you start shaping a neck by just randomly rounding everything over, you get an uneven lumpy thing. Then you spend a lot of time trying to straighten it out. And you may go too far in spots and miss the shape that you thought you wanted. Start with lines. Work to the lines to establish the shape and make it even. Then round it off.

And yes, we pros make mistakes all the time too. You can imagine how many times, when carving one of those scroll headstocks, that an errant chunk of maple has gone flying.....Epoxy is my friend!

A definition I've always liked: Professionals and Amateurs both make mistakes. Professionals recognize their mistakes immediately and fix them right away, while they still can be fixed. Amateurs don't see their mistakes, or ignore them until they can't be fixed.

 

[amadeusex]

Carving complex shapes doesn't require you to be born with some magical wizard skill. It's technique with tools that you learn with practice. It really isn't that hard.

You can carve body transitions, neck shapes and headstocks completely with hand tools, if you like. The power tools just make it quicker to remove the bulk of the wood.

One thing that often isn't mentioned in discussions about carving is that you always need to be working to some kind of lines or reference marks. You don't just look at a block of wood with one eye closed and your thumb up, and whack away at it! You figure out what shape you want it to be before you touch the tools, and use pencil layout lines, cardboard gauges, and whatever else you can think of to constantly check how much wood you're removing and where. You have to know where you're going.

In my pages about the Scroll Bass necks, you can see how I'm constantly using gauges and templates to give me lines to work to. My system of shaping the back of the neck in five flat facets may seem like extra work, but it actually saves time overall. If you start shaping a neck by just randomly rounding everything over, you get an uneven lumpy thing. Then you spend a lot of time trying to straightening it out. And you may go too far in spots and miss the shape that you thought you wanted. Start with lines. Work to the lines to establish the shape and make it even. Then round it off.

And yes, we pros make mistakes all the time too. You can imagine how many times, when carving one of those scroll headstocks, that an errant chunk of maple has gone flying.....Epoxy is my friend!

A definition I've always liked: Professionals and Amateurs both make mistakes. Professionals recognize their mistakes immediately and fix them right away, while they still can be fixed. Amateurs don't see their mistakes, or ignore them until they can't be fixed.

You're giving me hope man, again thanks a lot.

Since I'm an absolute woodworking beginner (but also a perfectionist and as stubborn as it gets) I was thinking about a test drive at first with some scrap wood or mdf. It wouldn't bother me at all if the first bass would suck, just another reason to move to a second build.

Your way of shaping the neck is simply genius! Of course people like Mike Tobias and Vinny Fodera can do it freehand and in a couple of hours but hey they did it a couple of times before

I also totally agree with you about using templates and jigs.

Last not least I will also try a run with a cnc machine. I watched Beauchene Implants's video (and some others) and I'm impressed.

 

[curbowkid]

My first build. My first time really carving anything more than a sharpened stick. Be patient and use your hands to feel curves and dips for uniformity. Draw out lines and stick with them.

 

[Meatrus]

I should have mentioned that those pages showing the construction of my basses are a new section that I drafted up and put on the server, but never finished and linked in with my main site. Now, they are actually obsolete. The Series IV model Scroll Basses shown in those pages are out of production for now, and I'm not taking any new orders for them. I'm soon going to be reworking those pages to show my latest models. My whole web site is way, way out of date.

If you're curious, here's the matching sections showing the construction of the Series IV bodies and pickup systems. I never finished the ones on the metal hardware and the paint.

http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingbody1.html
http://www.xstrange.com/Building/Buildingpickups1.html

And here's the Gallery page showing a finished Series IV AUB-2:
http://www.xstrange.com/Gallery/AUB067.html

Thanks, looks like a really nice bass. Dont blame you for putting them out of production though, looks like a lot of work!

.

Your way of shaping the neck is simply genius! Of course people like Mike Tobias and Vinny Fodera can do it freehand and in a couple of hours but hey they did it a couple of times before

.

I use this technique too, here is a link which explains how to do it in a little more detail (if any was needed)[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. Even using this method the carving of the actual neck shaft shouldnt take any longer than two hours, much less when you have done it a few times.

 

[amadeusex]

Thanks, looks like a really nice bass. Dont blame you for putting them out of production though, looks like a lot of work!



I use this technique too, here is a link which explains how to do it in a little more detail (if any was needed)[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. Even using this method the carving of the actual neck shaft shouldnt take any longer than two hours, much less when you have done it a few times.

Thanks for sharing brother, very detailed howto and a very sophisticated approach.

I appreciate it !

 

[Bruce Johnson]

That's an excellent tutorial on neck shaping, Meatrus! Take a look at it guys. That's a great illustrated sequence of how to cut the neck in facets, working to layout lines. He's using seven facets, where I usually use five on my bass necks. But that makes sense for classical guitar necks, which are rounder and taller.

Modern bass necks are wide and flat, with a lot of taper (the difference in width between the nut and the heel). The primary bevels that I cut twist in angle between the two ends. I position my layout lines by measuring up from the fingerboard glue line on the sides, and then off to either side of the centerline down the back.

If you're shaping an asymmetrical neck, the layout method with the facets works just as well. You just move the centerline off to one side of the actual center, and draw the lines the same way. Most asymmetrical necks aren't offset a huge amount; they are about 1/8" off center at the nut and 1/4" off center at the heel.

For working out the shape of a complex transition, like in the original post, I use a lot of scraps of posterboard. For example, think out what you want the profile shape to look like right down the centerline. Draw it out full size on the posterboard, from the back of the neck up through the transition, onto the back surface of the body. Cut it out with an Xacto knife and use it as a gauge to see where you are as you start cutting away the wood. Make a similar posterboard gauge of the shape going crosswise, at some reference point.