I play mostly guitar, and my bass playing was always clean, but lately i've been messing with some recording plugins, and i'm wondering how did guys get that crispy upper mid thing in 70s funk and disco type songs... i record direct and don't gig as a bassist, and i have a jazz bass... anyone can give me advice on a preamp or pedal to give me that little edge in the higher frequencies that seems to really cut?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
How to get this slightly distorted sound on Roy Ayers "Searching"
- Thread starter patshep
- Start date
Try an Ampeg B15 plug in and perhaps add a touch of overdrive. Those records were almost always recorded using a small bass combo sometimes a guitar amp with a mic, later days things went more direct.
B
Broughton Fliptop is a B15-emulating preamp pedal. They're discontinued but pop up from time to time on the classifieds here
Broughton Fliptop is a B15-emulating preamp pedal. They're discontinued but pop up from time to time on the classifieds here
William Allen was the player on that and a lot of Ayers’ tracks. You might be able to find an interview somewhere deep on the old internet.
Most DAWs will have a “Fliptop” setting in the amp sim plug-ins. That’s your cheapest path to the old B15N sound.
I got really close to the sound of my 70s B15N being driven hard with a 2000s Zvex Mastotron pedal.
The B15N sounds really great as a guitar amp too, especially after you get the hang of the deceptively simple Baxandall tone controls. Sooo it might be worth it to you to grab one off eBay and send it to a local tech to get refurbed and swap whatever old speaker it’s got for a new Eminence Beta15A.
Most DAWs will have a “Fliptop” setting in the amp sim plug-ins. That’s your cheapest path to the old B15N sound.
I got really close to the sound of my 70s B15N being driven hard with a 2000s Zvex Mastotron pedal.
The B15N sounds really great as a guitar amp too, especially after you get the hang of the deceptively simple Baxandall tone controls. Sooo it might be worth it to you to grab one off eBay and send it to a local tech to get refurbed and swap whatever old speaker it’s got for a new Eminence Beta15A.
That's really interesting. I've only ever used the Mastotron for gated fuzz tones, and it was especially great when paired with an envelope filter.
What settings did you use to get close to a B-15 with it?
For a B15 you’d be hard pressed to do better than an Ampeg SGTDI, it captures the whole vibe perfectly anlong with the 15 inch IR and it’s got a ton of other bells and whistles.
I had and enjoyed the Barber Linden v2 pedal as well, that is much, much cheaper and does a good job as well
I had and enjoyed the Barber Linden v2 pedal as well, that is much, much cheaper and does a good job as well
just checked the track. Cool track. I think the bass was is more important than the specific amp. It’s hard to tell for sure which amp and bass they used. I suspect a jazz bass. But doesn’t sound particularly jazz bass-ish. So I am not sure. Doesn’t sound really distorted either.
By 1976, the release date of the song in question, it's pretty likely that the bass was recorded direct. Motown, for example, had a B-15 in the Detroit studio for monitoring and rehearsal, but even in the early years the bass was mostly recorded through a custom-made direct-recording preamp.
I have jazz and pop LPs from the '50s and '60s that include liner notes with details about the studio sessions for the audiophiles who constituted a large proportion of the potential customers back then. On a Ray Stevens ("Ahab the Arab") album, which was recorded in 1962 and released on the Mercury label, the notes say "Electric Bass Guitar---direct to board." (The notes also say "Bass [meaning upright bass]---EV-666.")
D
The "distortion" sounds like a touch of fretbuzz to me (but the deliberate kind that can actually sound cool in some situations). Maybe you could try adjusting your action lower and/or tighten the truss rod a little, to the point where you get that grindy hint of fretbuzz when digging in, but can still get a clean tone when playing softly. Just make sure you dial in a relatively slim tone with enough upper mids to let the buzz/stringnoise cut through the mix. The choice of stings can make a HUGE difference too of course.
Another way could be to fret the notes VERY softly with your fretting hand. This can also create that kind of grindy buzz/stringnoise.
I might be wrong but I honestly don't hear any other "distortion" on that track? It all sounds like fretbuzz/string noise to me.
I think people are seriously overthinking this (and getting it totally wrong in the process) when they bring B15s and all kinds of expensive digital gear into the discussion. Just straight into a decent DI and a good (preferably transformer based) micpre should get you there IMO, as long as you get it right at the source.
Another way could be to fret the notes VERY softly with your fretting hand. This can also create that kind of grindy buzz/stringnoise.
I might be wrong but I honestly don't hear any other "distortion" on that track? It all sounds like fretbuzz/string noise to me.
I think people are seriously overthinking this (and getting it totally wrong in the process) when they bring B15s and all kinds of expensive digital gear into the discussion. Just straight into a decent DI and a good (preferably transformer based) micpre should get you there IMO, as long as you get it right at the source.
Last edited:
I just listened to the the track on sone pretty good speakers. I hear someone really digging in and using technique to create some string noise alternated with clean attack. There’s some saturation too, can’t tell if it’s transformer, tube or tape (probably a bit of all). B15-ish amplification will probably help, but IMHO this mainly in the fingers.
The whole Ayers Polydor Anthology is just awesome.
By 1976, William Allen had added a Gibson G3 bass to his toolbox. That grind on the track could be from the strings on that maple neck and one of the switch positions on the G3 running into a DI box. One of the G3 modes had that weird very-top-end grind like that.
By 1976, William Allen had added a Gibson G3 bass to his toolbox. That grind on the track could be from the strings on that maple neck and one of the switch positions on the G3 running into a DI box. One of the G3 modes had that weird very-top-end grind like that.
agreed. Sounds like diggingg in with lower action on a jazz bass to me.
But man, this is a killer track. I need to listen to more of Roy Ayers.
I agree. You don't have to use a B15 for this sound. Can be done with any amp and bass really. But the bass is more important than the amp anyway.
Could be that Gibson G3 that @frankie5string said. I had two of those once, they have fairly distinct sound.I don't hear a jazz bass in that sound from that Roy Ayers tracks.
Is this the same player? he has some Alembic (ish?) bass here. But that a few years later and it is playback
Gibson G3 makes sense because my first thought was "Jazz bass bridge pickup...but not quite".
I'm also hearing a lot of sustain, so I suspect quite a bit of studio compression.
Still, you can never perfectly recreate a sound; from the hands to the signal chain to the recording media there are too many interrelated variables - trying to get it perfect is a recipe for frustration.
For "close enough to start" a soloed (or favored) bridge pickup and B15 emulation should get you in the ballpark.
I'm also hearing a lot of sustain, so I suspect quite a bit of studio compression.
Still, you can never perfectly recreate a sound; from the hands to the signal chain to the recording media there are too many interrelated variables - trying to get it perfect is a recipe for frustration.
For "close enough to start" a soloed (or favored) bridge pickup and B15 emulation should get you in the ballpark.
