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Double Bass How to make a piezo pickup

fdeck said:
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There are low noise JFET op amps, particularly in the Burr-Brown catalog (now Texas Instruments), like OPA121, OPA134, and OPA627...
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I've seen those used in some high current aps, like the Headroom headphone amps.

I'm sticking with JFETS for now, since (1) I don't need any gain for most of these applications (2) low parts count, which means I can built them very tiny and (3) my education in low noise performance, thank you very much!

This evening I finished building the classic fdeck design into my Azola- check out this snazzy battery box installation:

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That wasn't my work- Rob Wilson did that last weekend while we discussed some ideas for his instruments.

I also made some tranducers this evening from 0.6" piezo benders I found at Allelectronics.com. Very sensitive; one is going into my baritone ukulele tomorrow along with a preamp. ;-)
 
mje said:
One other thing that builders of fdeck's classic design might consider: Modern 9 volt alkaline batteries are rated at about 1 amp-hour. Given a preamp drain of 1ma, a battery will theoretically last 1000 hours of use.
Thanks for that info. I had always been assuming half of that value.
 
Hi Y'all
I am selling my leftover MSI piezo film and some attached mogami cable . /www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2719343
4 of these ar eready to be hooked up to a jack and plugged in.
All fully functional, some shielded etc.
I am selling at cost as I have moved onto Winding My own magnetic pickups. More on this later!
If you can use it enjoy. 30$ shipped
JFLO
 
I built some pickups out of the PZT ceramic piezo material I obtained, and tried it on my bass- and it <em>smoked</em> my Fishman BP-100. I took one over to Rob Wilson's, and we tried it in a bass there, with fdeck's simple source follower. Fantastic sound. I'm going to try some varients, using different complaint materials, and different shielding.

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As you can see, it's pretty small. Simple, too. But a little tricky to assemble, as it's only about 5x10mm. This design may be the one that goes into one of the basses he's building:

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Still working on violin and viola sized pickups...
 
mje said:
I thought so, too, but the latest alkalines apparantly are vastly improved. BTW, some of the simple JFET source follower circuits I've seen use a pair of resistors between the rails and the gate to set the bias- is there any advantage in adding an additional resistor betwene the gate and +9 in your circuit?
In my circuit, the bias is simply 0 V. Changing the bias results in shifting the DC level of the output up and down. Doing so lets you center the output signal between the points where it begins to distort, thus maximizing dynamic range.

What I did instead was to pick a particular JFET (and later chose a different one that was even a bit better) that seemed to have ample dynamic range at zero bias.

BTW, where in southeast Michigan? I grew up in Trenton.
 
fdeck said:
In my circuit, the bias is simply 0 V. Changing the bias results in shifting the DC level of the output up and down. Doing so lets you center the output signal between the points where it begins to distort, thus maximizing dynamic range.

What I did instead was to pick a particular JFET (and later chose a different one that was even a bit better) that seemed to have ample dynamic range at zero bias.

BTW, where in southeast Michigan? I grew up in Trenton.

So... with some FETs setting the bias midway between the rails might buy you some dynamic range. I tried it with the 2n4393 and it didn't make any audible difference with the piezos I tried.

I grew up in Detroit, lived there for 33 years, and now live in Huntington Woods. Been here for a looong time ;-)
 
mje said:
So... with some FETs setting the bias midway between the rails might buy you some dynamic range. I tried it with the 2n4393 and it didn't make any audible difference with the piezos I tried.

I grew up in Detroit, lived there for 33 years, and now live in Huntington Woods. Been here for a looong time ;-)
That's the idea. But it's something where you would want to either look at it with a scope or model with LTSpice. (That's how I do all of my analog designs, BTW).
 
Oke Doke, I will do that. Next couple days.

I forget the source, but you can download a scope program that uses the sound card of your PC. Of course it is only AC coupled, limited to 20 kHz, and has no voltage calibration. But for looking at the shape and quality of waveforms, it's great. And free.
 
fdeck said:
I forget the source, but you can download a scope program that uses the sound card of your PC. Of course it is only AC coupled, limited to 20 kHz, and has no voltage calibration. But for looking at the shape and quality of waveforms, it's great. And free.

Hey, I forgot about that... I have the program somewhere- it's called "Scope" ;-) I used it to create a sort of bargain basement Ryan Stormscope to plot lightning strikes a few years ago.

In other news, I built some tiny (about 2mm square) ceramic tranducers for violin last night. The material I'm using is too thick to make a shielded version, but it tested well on my violin. I have some .3mm thick stuff on order as well as some .005" brass sheet and some thinner mogami cable.
 
Hi There
I finally have a working prototype magnetic pickup,
After many experimental models and a few failed or unimpressive attempts. I have a design I am satisfied with.:hyper:
This design is really labor intesive though
It uses alnico V magnets and separate coils for each string
(wired in humbucking series), this allows for individual height/volume adjustments for each string. I just ordered a drill press off ebay so I can make a sleek wooden housing for the pickup body which will mount to the end of the fingerboard with 3m dual lock velcro.
I am planning on making these in short orders and making them available for other players who are tired of the feedback vs. volume issue.
I was hoping to sell them in the 200$ range but with parts labor and the tedious amount of winding time make a 225$ ( shipped) more likely
I will let you all know when i have some ready ( and pictures)
JFLO
 
I made my own magnetic pickups in the following way. First, I pulled apart some small stepping motors that were discarded at my workplace. Each motor contains two little coils on nice plastic bobbins. I found some little rare earth magnets that fit inside the coils.

For my housing, I cut apart pieces of 1/4 inch thick Lexan, from the scrap pile at home. Filed to shape, tapped, with little #4-40 machine screws. Quite a contraption, but it's not too conspicuous at a distance.

For better or worse, I don't have any more of the coils or magnets. I know that there are places on the Web that sell little rare earth magnets. Digi-Key sells a $15 stepping motor, and you would need two motors to extract the four coils. Choose "bipolar" motors, and the highest possible coil voltage, which corresponds to the most turns of wire. The only remaining variable is diameter. The Digi-Key motors are of a type that have two metal shells welded together. You have to break the welds by gently going through them with a hack saw. Going a little further with the hack saw starts cutting the coils themselves, if you catch my drift.

Even using pre-made coils, if jflojazz could make this work and sell it for $200 with a decent profit for himself, it would be pretty cool.

Now for a technical observation based on a minor mistake that I made. In the series humbucking mode, you should make sure that you alternate the polarity of the magnets along with the polarity of the coils, so that adjacent strings will be in phase with one another. This is not an issue when using the pickup by itself, but is necessary if you want to mix the magnetic pickup with a piezo.

Oh and one other thing... you can get away with fewer turns of wire if you don't mind building a small low noise preamp to make up for the reduced gain. It could be a simple JFET affair, and doesn't have to be mounted close to the pickup.
 
mje said:
You might try MSI's piezoelectric cable, which has high output and is used by a lot of companies for under-the-saddle pickups. I've found a couple of suppliers selling it for $1/inch. One supplier is [Invalid or Expired Link Removed].

I haven't tried it yet, but I may try it in one of Rob Wilson's electric violins.


I've been playing with piezo pickups a little. After doing some repairs on my son's friend's upright 3/4 bass I developed a love for the simplicity and tone quality of piezo pups.

Trout Cove Lutherie (mentioned in above quote) has a great little sample pack. This is my son's 80yo banjo that I restored with a small piezo piece from their sample pack. For such a simple pickup it's got a very true tone. Of course banjo through a wah, chorus or springverb is too cool.

Piezo1.JPG Piezo2.JPG

I've seen piezo under the bridge of an F-Bass guitar and have wondered if I could adapt a piezo into my PJ bass? Has anyone else tried this?

Many Thanks