How to mic-up an ABG for tone.....

[N. Kentucky Bass]

It's the Fishman causing you problems.

I have no idea how costly it is to replace, but I have yet to hear a manufacterer installed Fishman that was worth a crap.

You've already admitted your ignorance about Fishman's recent technology having never heard it.

The Matrix Infinity Pickup & Preamp System costs $160

The VTB Active Volume & Tone Controls is $110

If you are serious about good ABG tone, get the newer technology. I've had this for more than a year and it sounds great. In a totally different class than the old technology.

(Another reason to ignore advice on the internet from people who've never used what they're talking about.)

 

[tfer]

And, as I stated earlier, I'm glad that Fishman is replacing their crap.

But make no mistake, it was crap.

And in the wild, the vast majority of Fishman systems that a person will come across are their original garbage.

 

[Rockin John]

Tfer, what were the issues that caused such problems with Fishman gear?

 

[tfer]

Tfer, what were the issues that caused such problems with Fishman gear?

I plugged it in...!

To be fair though, Fishman was one of the first piezo systems to be widely available, for a reasonable price.

But the sound is why the word 'janky' was invented!

I'm glad to hear that they've recently improved their lineup, because more great options are always better than less, but because of their past, I moved onto LR Baggs and couldn't be happier.

 

[Groove Doctor]

From what I found, that model bass came with 2 different pickups. Which does yours have @Rockin John ?
presys+ onboard preamp - Google Search

b-band a3t bass - Google Search

 

[Groove Doctor]

An outboard preamp like Sansamp Paradriver can work wonders for removing the piezo quack by using the blend control. Many love the Zoom A3 for ABG and even DB.

The right tube preamp (or amp) can really add some magic. My Mesa WalkAbout worked nicely with my ABG at that time, straight into input.

Replacing the preamp/UST may help too. Both those models linked above have been used on Acoustic guitars too, so plenty of info on acoustic gtr forums about mods, replacements, etc. Can turn into a very expensive pit tho.

 

[Rockin John]

From what I found, that model bass came with 2 different pickups. Which does yours have @Rockin John ?
presys+ onboard preamp - Google Search

b-band a3t bass - Google Search

From what I found, that model bass came with 2 different pickups. Which does yours have @Rockin John ?
presys+ onboard preamp - Google Search

b-band a3t bass - Google Search

G' Day, GD. Mine has the Presys ... Invalid Link Removed

Since broaching the issue of micing ABGs, I've spent some time over in DB looking what those guys do / think for live sound. The wisdom seems in favour of microphones for the most natural (DB) sound whilst recognising feedback issues, and the like. It seems some guys even use the old favourite, SM58, strapped on, with great results!

Naturally mounting a '58 on an ABG ain't realistic but the general concept of micing an ABG came to mind again... simply because I cannot really like the sound of the Presys. And simply because there must be a way of micing an ABG with decent results, especially at low amplification volumes. Having said all this, some guys feel a mic / piezo mix is a good way to go because the fundamentals are handled by the Piezo whilst the mic does the rest ... in theory, I suppose!

The thing that would attract me, I think, is some mini microphone on a mini gooseneck, with both on a mount that clamps onto the body of the bass so that the player is mobile to some extent. But I've never seen a mount that successfully clips to an ABG body (yes, Thomann do a mount but it's supposedly rubbish!).

Anyway, a few more thoughts, there.

Best.

J

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

G' Day, GD. Mine has the Presys ... Invalid Link Removed

Since broaching the issue of micing ABGs, I've spent some time over in DB looking what those guys do / think for live sound. The wisdom seems in favour of microphones for the most natural (DB) sound whilst recognising feedback issues, and the like. It seems some guys even use the old favourite, SM58, strapped on, with great results!

Naturally mounting a '58 on an ABG ain't realistic but the general concept of micing an ABG came to mind again... simply because I cannot really like the sound of the Presys. And simply because there must be a way of micing an ABG with decent results, especially at low amplification volumes. Having said all this, some guys feel a mic / piezo mix is a good way to go because the fundamentals are handled by the Piezo whilst the mic does the rest ... in theory, I suppose!

The thing that would attract me, I think, is some mini microphone on a mini gooseneck, with both on a mount that clamps onto the body of the bass so that the player is mobile to some extent. But I've never seen a mount that successfully clips to an ABG body (yes, Thomann do a mount but it's supposedly rubbish!).

Anyway, a few more thoughts, there.

Best.

J

It's called the H-Clamp by Explor Audio. You can buy it at Bob Gollihur's site. About $155 bucks for the 4-piece kit, which you'll need for an ABG.
H-Clamp Light Upright Bass and Cello Microphone Mounts at Gollihur Music - Double Bass, Upright Bass, String Bass Specialists

I just got one. However, I've discovered the mic needs to be at least 4-6 inches away from the sound hole so the H-Clamp is pretty much useless. Better to record with a mic on a stand as the H-Clamp is too unstable at that distance. The ABG (like the upright) needs space for the sound to bloom and sound natural.

As for LIVE sound, you're better off using a pickup. Too much bleed and the volume of the ABG is too quiet to overcome ambient noise of the band.

The SM57 is the gold standard for micing a rock-in-roll guitar cab or a snare drum, but it's barely adequate for the ABG. A condenser can provide superior recordings. I'm getting great results with both a Peluso 22 251 tube-based large diaphragm condenser and a Telefunken M60 FET-based small diaphragm condenser.

I'm actually getting a better recording quality by blending the acoustic recording with the pickup through a tube preamp.

 

[tfer]

If I was going to rewire my AEB, I'd install this:

Anthem

 

[Rockin John]

Thanks guys.

The H Clamp is made in the UK so I should be able to source one here as it's my Country! I'll look into this.

Further experiments last night seems to suggest that the unamplified, acoustic sound of the bass is quite good. But take the audio via a vibration-sensitive transducer like a piezo under the bridge saddle, and all sorts of dead spots, etc, spring up. This problem is making me dislike the instrument when, really, I do like it to play!! I suppose I should experiment with an ordinary bass pickup in the sound hole, just to see what happens.

I am aware of the Anthem, thanks Tfer, and I did check it out on the website. The jury is still out!

Thanks.

J

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Here are some videos reviewing different pickups for ABG:

 

[Rockin John]

Thanks V V much for that, UB.

I'm genuinely astonished how much the pickups differ in sound. Having listened through a couple of times I can't pick a favourite.

There clearly is scope for experimentation.

A couple of years ago I bought an AKG C411 III which is now redundant so I suppose I could try that.

Thanks again.

J

 

[fokof]

I would advise you to invest in a better pickup system.
Some system have both piezo and mike inside and you blend to your taste.
It will still be feedback friendly.

If you absolutely need to mike your ABG , I'd suggest a DPA 4099 ,and get the appropriate clip for your instrument.
(sold separately , so you buy what's right for you)

 

[Rockin John]

Thanks fokof. I don't "absolutely need" to mic my ABG, its just one possible way around the issue. Another, as you say, is new electronics. Another is a new bass altogether!!

Interestingly that mic is about £350 + the mounts. That would make a nice contribution to a new bass!

Thanks.

J

 

[Rockin John]

I've decided on a little experiment... I'm going to set up my SM58 on a stand and play the ABG through the practice amp via a little mixer. It might give me some clue as to whether it'd work or not in 'real life'. And, indeed, whether or not the bass sounds better (or worse) amplified that way.

I can alter mic distance and / or position regarding the bass and see what happens.

J

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I've decided on a little experiment... I'm going to set up my SM58 on a stand and play the ABG through the practice amp via a little mixer. It might give me some clue as to whether it'd work or not in 'real life'. And, indeed, whether or not the bass sounds better (or worse) amplified that way.

I can alter mic distance and / or position regarding the bass and see what happens.

J

This experiment should be a real "ear opener." Most people who've only played their ABG unamplified don't really know what it sounds like. The sound is usually existing perpendicular to the player through the sound hole, which is difficult to hear from the perspective of the audience (who'd better be darn close!).

Once you really "hear" what the ABG sounds like, it can dramatically affect how you play it - particularly intensity of plucking. This is especially true when you record it with a high quality capture system. All this can change one's perspective on the musical possibilities of ABG. It's a very unappreciated instrument with tons of potential. Especially when you ditch the bronze copper strings and use something decent!

 

[mesaplayer83]

FWIW, I've been gigging a Breedlove AEB Stage BJ 350 cr4 a fair amount, with excellent results... I typically use a Line6 XDS-PLUS wireless into the board, and use a monitor mix send to an Alto TS 210 powered monitor... A soundhole plug is an absolute must for playing these beasts live, IMO/IME... My Breedlove uses this preamp:

Invalid Link Removed

I also have a Breedlove AEG Stage D25 SR that came fitted with one of these:

L.R. Baggs Dual Source Mixing System with Dual Source mic, Element Pickup and Dual Source Mixing System with FREE D'Addario 3 Pack!

This seems like something that would suit the OP quite well - I notched out a soundhole plug to clear the remote controls mounted on the edge of the soundhole, and it works really well...

 

[DirtDog]

You could always use an Irig Acoustic Stage. Actually works very well on an acoustic bass. Also has a feedback cancellation button.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/ik-multimedia-irig-acoustic-stage#productDetail

+1

 

[Rockin John]

This experiment should be a real "ear opener." Most people who've only played their ABG unamplified don't really know what it sounds like. The sound is usually existing perpendicular to the player through the sound hole, which is difficult to hear from the perspective of the audience (who'd better be darn close!).

Once you really "hear" what the ABG sounds like, it can dramatically affect how you play it - particularly intensity of plucking. This is especially true when you record it with a high quality capture system. All this can change one's perspective on the musical possibilities of ABG. It's a very unappreciated instrument with tons of potential. Especially when you ditch the bronze copper strings and use something decent!

This experiment should be a real "ear opener." Most people who've only played their ABG unamplified don't really know what it sounds like. The sound is usually existing perpendicular to the player through the sound hole, which is difficult to hear from the perspective of the audience (who'd better be darn close!).

Once you really "hear" what the ABG sounds like, it can dramatically affect how you play it - particularly intensity of plucking. This is especially true when you record it with a high quality capture system. All this can change one's perspective on the musical possibilities of ABG. It's a very unappreciated instrument with tons of potential. Especially when you ditch the bronze copper strings and use something decent!

Hello. Yes, The a Tanglewood, new, comes with D'Addario nickel rounds. They came off straight away in favour of D'Add half rounds.

 

[Rockin John]

This experiment should be a real "ear opener." Most people who've only played their ABG unamplified don't really know what it sounds like. The sound is usually existing perpendicular to the player through the sound hole, which is difficult to hear from the perspective of the audience (who'd better be darn close!).

Once you really "hear" what the ABG sounds like, it can dramatically affect how you play it - particularly intensity of plucking. This is especially true when you record it with a high quality capture system. All this can change one's perspective on the musical possibilities of ABG. It's a very unappreciated instrument with tons of potential. Especially when you ditch the bronze copper strings and use something decent!

You make some great points here, UB. I wasn't sure what to expect with it mic-ed as opposed to unamplified or on the Fishman. Tomorrow will reveal, I hope.