How to Succeed as an Original Band

[miltslackford]

I would say the best thing to do in an original band is to BE ORIGINAL.

This might sound quite obvious, but I think it's the main thing. Lots of people thing being in an original band could be as in 'we write our own songs'. But I don't think that's enough. I think the music has to be really different and groundbreaking and unique to be really worthwhile to others.

For example, no matter how good your funk band is, it's still funk, and funk is really boring by now, 2011.

So make it really really good but very genuinely original too.

Just my 2p.

 

[BarryRay]

Thanks for the reply TR. I've been thinking of getting a smaller recording setup for my own use at home as our band's setup, however nice, is a good 40 minute bike ride away and not exactly convenient for working out ideas on my own.

I do think having a completely (or mostly) finished idea will help them hear the potential in a riff without dismissing it right away. Guess I should use some of my "one day Ill own that vintage tele-bass" fund and get either some software or an 8 track. The R24 looks amazing, but a bit overly complicated for what I would need for simple idea recording. Any good 8 tracks that you can recommend? The R8 looks spiffy but almost cost as much as the R24, so I might as well get the big boy. My ADD kicks in if their are too many settings, so simple but effective is what I'm looking for.

This thread has also convinced me to try and add at least 1 cover to our 30 min set and trim off one of our older songs to make room, but I'm having some trouble picking the cover.
When picking covers for an original band, should you try and focus on vocals that your singer can easily hit? I figure its easier for the rest of the band to change their style slightly and play chords/rhythms that aren't in our normal bag of tricks than it is for our singer to try and sound like Bjork or Eric Burdon.
Or should we just strip the cover down to chord progressions, lyrics, and a vocal melody and sort of build from there?
The second method seems like it would open us up to more choices, and allow us more freedom to sound like "us", however the end product may be so far removed from the original that no one in the audience will recognize it.

Any bands that recently added a cover have any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[TRichardsbass]

Thanks for the reply TR. I've been thinking of getting a smaller recording setup for my own use at home as our band's setup, however nice, is a good 40 minute bike ride away and not exactly convenient for working out ideas on my own.

I do think having a completely (or mostly) finished idea will help them hear the potential in a riff without dismissing it right away. Guess I should use some of my "one day Ill own that vintage tele-bass" fund and get either some software or an 8 track. The R24 looks amazing, but a bit overly complicated for what I would need for simple idea recording. Any good 8 tracks that you can recommend? The R8 looks spiffy but almost cost as much as the R24, so I might as well get the big boy. My ADD kicks in if their are too many settings, so simple but effective is what I'm looking for.

This thread has also convinced me to try and add at least 1 cover to our 30 min set and trim off one of our older songs to make room, but I'm having some trouble picking the cover.
When picking covers for an original band, should you try and focus on vocals that your singer can easily hit? I figure its easier for the rest of the band to change their style slightly and play chords/rhythms that aren't in our normal bag of tricks than it is for our singer to try and sound like Bjork or Eric Burdon.
Or should we just strip the cover down to chord progressions, lyrics, and a vocal melody and sort of build from there?
The second method seems like it would open us up to more choices, and allow us more freedom to sound like "us", however the end product may be so far removed from the original that no one in the audience will recognize it.

Any bands that recently added a cover have any thoughts?

Thanks!

I'll suggest you find an R16. Same as the R24 although it does not have the built in drum machine. You can get them pretty cheap online They also work well as audio interfaces with all the major software programs.

As for adding a cover, always take into consideration who will sing it. However, since you are an original band covering a song, it doesn't have to nor should it sound like the original. I always think about U2's version of "All Along the Watchtower". Nothing like Hendrix, nothing like Dylan.

Covers should be something that adds a touch of familiarity to the set to keep the audience interested, and they should also be somewhat interested in your spin on it. I do a super, old school style punked up version of Dylan's "My Back Pages". People love it. Nothing like the Dylan or Byrds version.

So, strip the cover down and make it your own. And its always nice to keep it in your singer's range.

 

[BarryRay]

Thanks again TR. The R16 looks like it's more my speed.

I was able to convince one of the "no covers, no way" members of the band to entertain the idea of 1-2 covers and after the ride home from practice, I think he finally agrees with me. 1 down, 3 to go. Now we just have to actually agree on a cover...

A quick question on cover's in set. Do you guys generally check with other bands in the lineup to make sure you won't, by random chance, be doing the same cover? Or the at least a song by the same band?

Would hate to rock Never Did No Wanderin' only to have the headliners give us the stink-eye for stealin' their thunder.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Thanks again TR. The R16 looks like it's more my speed.

I was able to convince one of the "no covers, no way" members of the band to entertain the idea of 1-2 covers and after the ride home from practice, I think he finally agrees with me. 1 down, 3 to go. Now we just have to actually agree on a cover...

A quick question on cover's in set. Do you guys generally check with other bands in the lineup to make sure you won't, by random chance, be doing the same cover? Or the at least a song by the same band?

Would hate to rock Never Did No Wanderin' only to have the headliners give us the stink-eye for stealin' their thunder.

When I prepare for a specific show I'll take a look at what the headliner typically plays just to see if there is anything obvious that might overlap. But usually, no, I don't do much checking.

The covers I pick are usually so out of the realm that I don't have to worry.

When I opened for the Lemonheads clearly they do Mrs. Robinson, so I made sure I stayed clear of Simon and Garfunkel but I did do a Juliana Hatfield cover. That is sort of close to home, but I remember Evan telling me it was a cool version.

Don't sweat it, just pick songs that are your influences but done in your style.

Maybe the best cover I can think of is Joey Ramone's version of "Its a Wonderful World". He could even have done it opening for Louis Armstrong and no one, even LA, would have cared.

Have fun.

 

[Valiant Bandit]

TR,
I spent about 45 minutes reading this thread and I do agree with what you are saying.

I think as a musician, you just have to be happy with what you're doing and understand becoming famous in a time where electro-pop garbage is king will be quite difficult.

I'll give you a perfect example : The RX Bandits. They started off as a mediocre, pop-ska band that sounded like Sublime and Reel Big Fish wannabe's. Their album Mandala? Sheer brilliance and ORIGINAL. Are they famous? No. They're decently known, but their stuff doesn't get played on the radio and they rarely play in big concerts unless it's with a slew of other bands.

Another great example is the Mars Volta. Their music is absolutely mind blowing. Once again they're like the RX Bandits...Although they do play in fairly large venues.

I feel like liking a great modern day band is almost cult-like and you really have to search to find good bands...This wasn't the case in the 80s and 90s. At least I think so..

This isn't meant to discourage anyone by any means...You can still be very successful and profitable even if you're somewhat famous. I just couldn't picture making music just to become rich and famous. I'd always do it because I enjoy it and it means something to me.

TR, I completely agree with you with songwriting...

I come up with different songs in my head every day...But I never write them down - this is for a reason...
If I forget it, it's because there's a good reason to forget it...It simply wasn't good enough to even be remembered the next day. But if I remember the song the next day, it's more than likely a keeper..

However it's completely different with lyrics...Write 'em down as soon as you think of them! Doesn't matter if it's on toilet paper or what!

 

[TRichardsbass]

Hello everyone and Happy Memorial Day Weekend! For those of us here on the "Jersey Shore" (yes, we don't pump our gas, but puhleeezzze, stop the pump our fist crap) it is the official unofficial start of summer. There is more music in this 20 square mile area then anywhere on the planet for the next three months.

Today's lesson comes from a thread below about dating the chick singer in your band. The OP there was in high school, and based on that many of the people who posted told him to go for it because he was young and most likely a high school band won't last anyway. Bad lesson to teach the kid.

While the truth is that the best time to take big risks is when you are young and can afford to screw up and recover much easier then if you are older and have lots of obligations. So, the taking a risk part is true. My point, however, was that this type of risk is something that begins a very bad pattern. There is a huge difference between taking the risk of quitting a band or starting one of your own to pursue your musical dream, it is another to take a risk on asking out or dating someone in the band for your own personal pleasure/peril.

Success is a habit. Yes, I said it. Success is a habit. There is no real end point, and it is really, truly a journey of accomplishments and achievements along the way. So the most important thing is to have habits that will lead you the right way not he path to fame and fortune.

In the other thread, my advice was to not go for the girl. Not only does it definitely put you in the position of possibly complicating the band, it places more issues there then you had before and it will become more of managing your relationship, all the jealousy and all the worry, all the fighting. Instead of just focusing on being the best band in the world it will become the boy worrying about someone hitting on his girl. He and she might split up (at that age definitely more possible) and then the band will most likely die, even if the band has potential to go on and be the next Paramore or Fleetwood Mac.

My advice was to start the habit early. Learn from other's experience and set yourself up for the best possible chance of success. That starts with learning and gaining habits early on. In this case, its a habit of focusing on the band, the music and yourself, and not complicating it with relationships in the band. As most will tell, its never good to date anyone in a band. It usually always ends up in disaster. So start the habit now, as a teenager, of learning to keep the band and the personal life separate. No matter how hot the girl singer is.

So todays lesson is develop GOOD habits early. If the advice is good for you at an older age, most likely it is good for you for all time. Develop those habits as early as possible for your most likely chance for success. Like most of the advice in this thread, learn it at the earliest possible moment in your life and career. Then it will be a habit and you will automatically do the best things for you at the time you need to do them.

Oh, and never, never, never date the chick singer unless the band breaks up first and she no longer sings for anyone but you...

 

[TRichardsbass]

Hey everyone! Sorry I haven't posted recently, I've been immersed in my new songwriting partnership and it looks like we hit potential gold with this amazing 16 year old who has Disney attention and BMI is in love with the songs my partnership wrote. It's been a ton of lawyers and paperwork, but thankfully the $$$$, while on the back end, seem to be a guarantee now.

I am going to take an unofficial official two week hiatus. That means that I might post here but for the most part probably won't be adding a ton of content. In addition, I have a second career as a sports writer, and I will be covering Wimbledon in England. I will be in London for the first few days of the tournament then jetting back here for some gigs around the 4th of July.

Please, all the people who read this thread, how about some guest posts? One thing I'd love to read while I'm sitting in my London hotel is what is the typical take a current original band is making when playing the small local clubs, and how did they get that.

Otherwise, have fun everyone! See/talk to you on this thread in two weeks!

 

[Session1969]

Interesting question and thanks for it.

First, way to go. You play a four hour nite, which has become the exception (around here most are about 3 hours for cover bands, starting at 10 or 11.)

My experience has been that if a band is a great coverband, usually the transition to an original band is a large hurdle. Not insurmountable, but a hurdle. I have yet to find one band in my time that was able to do it successfully.

If you guys want to add original songs, then by all means do it. In my mind you would need originals that clearly stand up to the covers you play before and after them. If your material isn't as catchy, kitchy or accessible as the covers, then its just a musical black hole in the set.

One way to do it would be to put the originals in the same place every night. Lets say you have a great original beer drinking song, that everyone seems to like and its like an anthem. For this example, lets say you have an original everyone notices and likes like Neil Diamond's "Sweet Caroline". Probably the best place to put that song is in the next to last set at the end of that set. Two things will happen. (1) People will participate and get really "happy" and want to order more beer and (2) they will come to know that when they hear that and sing your seet is over and you have one more set to come.

Another is to place your best original next to last for the nite, and end the nite on a cover that leaves 'em wanting more. Again, it will signal to them that you are about to finish for the nite and most likely over time they will begin to know the words. At that point, if its good, you can drop the cover tune completely and it will become your ending/encore theme.

As you add originals think exactly about placement. You don't want to put say a rockin' bluesy original right after or right before George Thorogoods "Bad to the Bone".

Another thing that might help is to have a steady venue where you gig regularly and add your originals in higher numbers over time at that place only. The audience most likely will become used to you doing so and will look at that place as special or different. If they like your originals then they will be anticipating the days until they see you there again. If they like your covers, then they will follow you to other clubs and know that they will get to hear some different material every week, month et cetera at the other place.

The other hurdle for going from cover to original is that club owners all are very aware of who the big cover bands are and who the orignal bands are. Few clubs book both types of music, so if you are known as a cover band the original clubs will really question your match with their club. And vice versa.

In my area you would and have never had THE NERDS play the Brighton Bar. And you have never had Monster Magnet play Jenkinsons.

Even the legendary Stone Pony over the years has been formula on individual nights. When I was younger and it was really hoppin', on Friday nights you usually had the latest big original band (Beaver Brown for example) and on Saturday Nights you had the house/cover band (Cats on a Smooth Surface). So if you wanted to hear something new (and maybe see Bruce) you always looked for Friday nights and Beaver Brown. Wanted to just dance and drink and know the music would be good? Saturday nights and Cats.

So if there is a club that has this type of formula (books originals certain nights and covers other regular nights) then this would be a great venue for you to try.

Hope that helps.

I believe learning and (at some point) playing a ton of covers is an important step to becoming a good writer. The Black Crows were a Led Zeppelin cover band and so was Great White. Midnite(a very popular reggae band) was a Bob Marley cover band in St. Croix. Wanna know why most bands are unsuccessful making a transition (imo) from being a cover band to being original ? They don't write enough originals that are good enough to become hits. Their songs don't stack up to the hits that fill up the rest of the setlist. It's that simple. Honestly, how many people here have been in bands where every time an original is written, there's a rush to just throw it in a set by someone in the band? I've been in so many like that it's silly and it's more mental masturbation than anything. It's my understanding that signed and successful original bands write forty or fifty songs for an album in order to pick ten or twelve strong ones. How many unsigned bands truly do that ? It sounds smart to me. Another thing I'd like to mention (based on my observations ) is that many more musicians that play (or have played) alot of covers are better musicians than those that don't (or haven't). In my experience, the vast majority of "all original " musicians find it easier to write crap than to learn what makes great songs great in the first place. A great hook, a progression that allows for a good vocal line and strong backups, etc. A good original band should have variances in their sound as well. You get that ability by being well versed and well rounded as a musician. There are exceptions but this is my opinion.

 

[JohnMCA72]

I always figure there's typically a 10:1 ratio of crap to good songs, if you're any good at all at writing (which, face it, not everybody is!). I can only imagine the boxcar loads of pure dreck that people like McCartney, Jackson, Manilow, Bacharach, etc. must have stashed away, never to be heard, to have been able to produce so many hits.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Unfortunately, I think McCartney has published a lot of the crap with the good. Same for Lennon. Come on, who would ever have even thought of recording a lot of the Plastic Ono Band stuff where Yoko "sings". Same for his last album before he died.



Quick jump on as there isn't a good match on at this very second.

Young Brit asks me why are there so many of these great tennis players who have made crap albums but still were able to put them out?

I had to ponder this, but answered, this:

"Because Gavin Rossdale and Lars Ulrich decided not to go on the men's tour."

I actually have a copy of "Mac and Cash", a wonderful piece of kitschy drivel from John McEnroe and Pat Cash from the early 1980's. Oh, and Johnny Mac can actually play guitar. Just don't ask him to sing for ya. Good thing he married Patty Smythe....

 

[Holdsg]

Well, who hasn't played air guitar with a tennis racquet in his/her life. Tennis players are naturals.

 

[theduke1]

If you want to make music your life, you must love music more then eating!

 

[TRichardsbass]

Okay, I'm at home, but watching the Bartoli-Lisicki women's quarterfinal from Wimbledon. Bartoli is going down hard in the third set. A shame, as I believed that Bartoli would make it to the Semis just based on her performance two weeks ago in winning Eastborne.

If Sharapova gets past her opponent today there should be no way she doesn't win this year! Yeah! I used to know Maria well in her early career, and when she was a endorsee of Speedminton.

Today's nugget, brought on by a question from a real idiot I've known for over two decades:

KNOWING EVERY SCALE, EVERY POSSIBLE JAZZ PROGRESSION, HAVING TECHNICAL SKILLS UP THE WAZOO DOES NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO SUCCESS AS AN ORIGINAL ARTIST!

The question was more of a comment, something to the extent of the reason most kids today don't make it is because they can't sight read and they don't know music technically inside and out.

Truthfully, even McCartney and Lennon didn't really know and understand music until AFTER the Beatles got huge. After the first 4 albums and the world tours that ended in the end of 1964 Paul, John and George all had time to not only compose more but had lessons and personal time with many great studio musicians of their day, including the great Hank Marvin.

We all know the story of Larry and Adam from U2 coming to the states after the first two huge albums to take lessons to get better in their music and instruments. Ditto for Garry Tallent, who took some lessons with several famous kats in NYC (learned patterns and warmup exercises).

Now I am NOT putting down music and music education, as we all do need it and it is very important. I find myself buying some more basic bass books and materials and re-learning or re-examining my skills and approach all the time. I am, however, saying that success as an original artist has almost no proportion to the amount of learning or technical skill you have on the instrument.

My "idiot" colleague has played in wedding bands since he was 19. Its been a very good side gig, and when he was 19-21 it was more then enough to pay the bills (it was the '70s you know). He can sight read well and is one of the few I know who can actually play with feel, not the written feel but with his own innate feel. That I find is rare with his breed.

His comment to me really made me, well, internally hot and angry. He actually believes that the reason most kids who try and start a band and go on with it don't succeed because they don't know the difference between a Myxolidian scale or Chex mix.

Even in songwriting, you don't need to know anything but how to play and sing a good melody. There are a ton of huge songs currently that are really just two chords over and over again. Songwriting is a craft, and you definitely need to improve at it every turn.

More important to success if the ability to write a song, arrange it based on the skills of your bandmates, and translate that song into something the audience wants to hear or hears it in a good way. I just did a one day original band consult that highlighted it to me more. The lead singer and primary songwriter is two to three times better in every aspect to his bandmates. He writes songs that I like, but when he plays them with his band they sound like crap, almost confused, because he has written parts that are way ahead of what his mates can do (I'm talking guys who just graduated high school here.)

So, another key is to understand all the elements of your band, and work within each capability. In my consulting effort I took several of the songs and actually fought with the leader until he let me simplify the bass part, change the keyboard part and really simplify the drum parts.

I had them rehearse those songs then play them the new way at their last gig. Not only did they sound a billion times better, but the band told me that was the first time ever they had chicks dancing to their music. The lead singer and guitarist still had a very hard time adjusting to the new arrangements (because they are his songs and only play one way in his head) but even he could see and feel the crowd difference. Now he is open to listening to what I have to say.

Don't stop learning about music. Ever. Just don't think that because you can play an Eb#7Dim11th chord that you will be successful or that it will guarantee more success.

Unless of course, you want to play in an orchestra or church band....

 

[mambo4]

This seems like the appropriate thread to share this free PDF book:
Derek Sivers:Invalid Link Removed

Derek Sivers is the founder of CD Baby, and has put a lot of energey to helping independant musicians.
The PDF is full of a lot of "strategic" advice about promoting your band.
By strategic I mean abstract level, "who are we as a band and how can we stand out?" type advice
as opposed to "Kinkos can print color flyers for you" who/what/where stuff.

 

[Dekker]

Or if you don't to give your email for [potential] spam, go direct: Invalid Link Removed

 

[KingRazor]

This seems like the appropriate thread to share this free PDF book:
Derek Sivers: How To Call Attention To Your Music
Music Marketing Advice | Derek Sivers

Derek Sivers is the founder of CD Baby, and has put a lot of energey to helping independant musicians.
The PDF is full of a lot of "strategic" advice about promoting your band.
By strategic I mean abstract level, "who are we as a band and how can we stand out?" type advice
as opposed to "Kinkos can print color flyers for you" who/what/where stuff.

Wow, what a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for the link. Lots of great stuff in there.

 

[mambo4]

Or if you don't to give your email for [potential] spam, go direct: Invalid Link Removed

Thanks for the superior link! I didn't like the fact that I was sending peeps to a registration type page... but the book was worth it, I felt.

anyhow, my original post has been updated with your link instead.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Okay, its been a while, so I'll put a new nugget today, forged from recent events in my musical life.

The business of music is very, very, very competitive. I'm not talking about the actual songs or music either. You'd never think about it, but just deciding in your band or group who gets credit for what and how much and who's name goes first it like a war, or can be.

I recently went through this with my songwriting team. We have gotten to the point where we had to formalize the partnership and form an LLC. Put four lawyers behind four musicians and you get four enormous walls of ego.

The hardest thing to do in all of this is to stay somewhat objective. Everyone is in it for themselves. Music is not a kibbutz or communist society. Never was, never will be.So you have to be able to separate your personal feelings from the actual business, at least to a large degree. We have been arguing over little crap in the LLC rules and the split of incomes. It took a long, long time for us to finally agree on how splits are made and determined. Now, yes, it works. There were a few times where people were thinking of getting out, but we all realize we have a good thing and that it is important to get the legal, business end addressed.

Being in a band can and at times will be that bad and worse. If you want to survive it, you have to be ready to separate your personal feelings and thoughts from the situation, and also find ways to step back and put yourself in the other guys shoes before you take out your pistol and shoot 'em all.

 

[TRichardsbass]

I've been a way for a bit, but I'm back.

Today's lesson comes courtesy of a couple of local guys here. One who I've known for decades but lost touch with for about a decade, and one from a young gun who has incredible potential but some things to work on. But both are in the process in the same way.

If you want to launch a project, then you must take the lead. If you take the lead, you must lead, not dictate. You must lead, not beat into submission. If you lead, you must remember that you can't do it alone. You must LEAD.

Leading often quickly perverts itself in our biz into some sort of dictatorial, almost facist stance. Most people have been taught to be followers, so when they finally take the reins they become egomaniacal tyrants. That is the quickest way to becoming the guy who never leaves his garage and all his musical greatness is wasted.

I am working on two separate projects right now. One with the long time guy, he is the leader. One with the young kid, he is the follower.

in the second project, I lead. I choose the players, I set the schedule, I work the set list with them but I have the final vote. I do the business end, but I try to be approachable and workable. Much more like a confident coach. I don't tell them how to do something, I tell them what I would like them to do, what sound I would like. I leave it to them to figure out how to coax that out of their fingers and equipment. I take the blame for all the things that go wrong, and I share the praise for all the things that go right. I never put our dirty laundry in front of the crowd nor do I counsel individual band members in front of the group. I make sure everyone is taken care of, but I insist on respect and their best efforts.

The first project came about because the leader was tired of putting together projects and having to ultimately replace lead singers as they quickly think that they are the band leader, even when its not their band. The previous project for my friend died because he just cannot be forceful enough to lead, and he worries too much about being everyone's friend. He is a great guy, but cannot really lead. I am just a player for him, but I am subtley coaching him on being a better leader.

My project the young kid with potential is taking a back seat, as much as it is killing him. He had an uber successful band and was making huge strides. Then his ego got in the way. He, as leader, started to think he was bigger then the band, bigger then his players. He ultimately wound up with a mutiny and everyone abandoned him.

I could not see his talent go to waste, so I decided to put together a project with me as the leader. I am teaching him by putting him under my band. I am firm but nuturing. I know how to manage personalities, and his is a hard one but he is starting to get it.

Leading is not the same as dictating. Leading is not ruling. Leading is showing people the way to go and letting them go, and giving the gentle correction along the way.

A key to being in a successful original band is to make sure the leader leads. And make sure, if you choose not to lead, you are a good follower. You don't have to be walked on or treated badly, but you should respect the leader as they decided to take on the tough parts. But make sure they are leaders. If you find yourself in a position where the lead singer or guitarist starts demanding perfection, or continually is not happy with anything, you will never be successful in the long run.

The best leaders are always people who fall somewhere perfectly between your mother and father when it comes to discipline or praise.

Successful bands have leaders.

An example of how not to lead, Sting. Even though he is still friends with the Police, they could not stand each other as the band broke up, and even started to not like each other again after their successful reunion tour a couple of years ago. Sting believes he is the Police.