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How TO Talk Your Drummer Into Controlling Tempo Better?
- Thread starter electracoyote
- Start date
I was taught years ago that the drummer does not control the tempo, THE BASS PLAYER DOES! The hard part is convincing your drummer to listen to you for the tempo. If he were any good he'd be listening to you anyway and it wouldn't be a problem.
the way you made him sound i would get rid of him you can find always find a new drummer and it sounds like he is very aware of the problem and is unwilling to correct it. However, locking him in a room with a drum set several cd's and a metronome and not letting him out until he plays all the songs at the correct tempo could be an option (i'm thinking some nice slowwww ballads).
... try playing some of them to your drummer!. You could record your Band's version and ask him to "compare and contrast" and maybe he'd get the message.
Seriously, this is a tough one to crack, but here are a couple of ideas that might work.
1. If the drummer is not doing the count-ins then you can say "how come you speeded up from the tempo that was set?".
2. If he is counting them in, then your line has to be - "how come you're not sticking to the tempos you are counting in at?".
3. If these approaches doesn't work then you have to be blunt!!. Tell him that he's speeding up in front of the whole band - you don't have to yell, or swear at him, but be firm. With the whole band there then if he denies it, the rest of the band can back you up (better be sure that they will before embarking on this course of action).
Please be advised that this worked for (on) me when I was rushing about like a headless chicken
okcrum
in your chest
I've had this problem of excited drummers a couple of times. Once, the drummer and I rehearsed James Brown grooves by ourselves until we locked up solid. Didn't take more than about 20 hours.
I'm in a band now where the drummer also has this issue. We've all talked to him about it, being the new guy I did so most recently. I told him that Bon Jovi fired their bass player after they got big because his tempo sucked, and that Springsteen almost fired Max Weinberg way back when for tempo issues. As Max said later, "I had to learn to get excited only down to my wrists". On the gig, I'll turn around and say something like "calm and fat" before a tune to get it back into his mind. He's getting better; there's hope for this one.
Thankfully, my time is good enough that he is starting to listen for me as well. That makes it easier on me, because if I have to play behind the beat too much, I always risk the drummer thinking we're slowing down - BAD. Like someone said, the bass drives the tempo.
Bottom line is, if the drummer can't get it, they leave.
I'm in a band now where the drummer also has this issue. We've all talked to him about it, being the new guy I did so most recently. I told him that Bon Jovi fired their bass player after they got big because his tempo sucked, and that Springsteen almost fired Max Weinberg way back when for tempo issues. As Max said later, "I had to learn to get excited only down to my wrists". On the gig, I'll turn around and say something like "calm and fat" before a tune to get it back into his mind. He's getting better; there's hope for this one.
Thankfully, my time is good enough that he is starting to listen for me as well. That makes it easier on me, because if I have to play behind the beat too much, I always risk the drummer thinking we're slowing down - BAD. Like someone said, the bass drives the tempo.
Bottom line is, if the drummer can't get it, they leave.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
I have/had this problem in one of the groups I play in. The drummer had bad tempo issues when I first stepped in to help the group out for a recording and a couple of gigs a year or two ago, taking on the de facto role as musical director. In tandem with fixing tempo issues AND illustrating what parts were working and what parts didn't, we recorded a gig just for yucks one evening. As expected there were tempo issues and issues with parts just not working that I'd tried to address several times. After the drummer heard the recording and heard everything under the microscope, he was horrified. I think it was RIGHT THEN that he 'heard' the music and knew what to address. He went home and practice and refined everything and now... it's like night and day! There are still tempo issues on some occasions, but he has improved worlds over from where he was a couple of years ago. My suggestion, record everything you can and address it as a group while listening, not playing. The recording doesn't lie.
We use sequences for about 80% of our material so our drummer uses a click track that is quantized below 100% so it does not sound robotic or rigid. That being said he has actually asked for a click track on the other material as well, we were surprised because he definately does not need it but he likes to keep everything tight and professional. It has made a huge difference in the overall performance, he controlls the sequences from a lap top behind his kit.
We play a lot of R&B,Reggae and Dance so it may not be ideal in your situation but if you brought it up or at least tried it he may get the message.
Good Luck!
We play a lot of R&B,Reggae and Dance so it may not be ideal in your situation but if you brought it up or at least tried it he may get the message.
Good Luck!
Man ... tuff situation ... been there more times than I'd like to remember. 
IMO ... he's just not going to listen. Especially with the "Enjoy the flight" comment (... annoying ... but still pretty funny
).
When this used to happen to me, I'd do one of three things ...
... pitch a fit after the show (which never worked)
... try to talk to him about his speed, yet again (which never worked)
... fight back. I used to thow in some syncopated fill, or some other slight change (that didn't throw off the song). This would usually make them have to concentrate a bit better ... thus slowing them down.
(I actually learned that last trick from one of my former drummers. IF I was speeding up too much ... he throw some extra syncopated stuff into the mix. Sometime he'd do it just to mess with me ...
... frankly, it made me a better bassist in the end. Every time we played ... I always had to be on my toes ... after a bit, so did he 
)
Good Luck.
IMO ... he's just not going to listen. Especially with the "Enjoy the flight" comment (... annoying ... but still pretty funny
).When this used to happen to me, I'd do one of three things ...
... pitch a fit after the show (which never worked)
... try to talk to him about his speed, yet again (which never worked)
... fight back. I used to thow in some syncopated fill, or some other slight change (that didn't throw off the song). This would usually make them have to concentrate a bit better ... thus slowing them down.
(I actually learned that last trick from one of my former drummers. IF I was speeding up too much ... he throw some extra syncopated stuff into the mix. Sometime he'd do it just to mess with me ...
... frankly, it made me a better bassist in the end. Every time we played ... I always had to be on my toes ... after a bit, so did he )Good Luck.
as I am a drummer and just try to play bass let me try to shed some light on this subject
1: don't tell the drummer it's too fast or too slow, tell him "we're not in sync" then work with him.
2: trying to get a drummer to slow down or speed up buy turning your volume up is only going to make them play louder as well, a battle the bassist will usually lose, try to be diplomatic, encouraging... say like 'the pocket was so close, just a bit fast.
3: it's a misnomer to think that it's easier to play slower... it's actually quite harder... the more space, the more problem it is... you'll want to practice with a click (a cowbell is my preference)... practice doesn't make perfect practice makes permanent... if you practice wrong it'll be wrong
which leads me to my last point...
If a drummer doesn't practice with a click his time will most likely suck... time doesn't come naturally it ttakes practice, It doesn't matter how fast a drummer can play 6 stroke rolls, paradiddles or swiss army triplets, if they can't hold a tempo they're next to worthless...
My last suggestion (regardless of what type of music you play)... get him to buy the tommy igoe groove essentials book/dvd which will EMPHASIZE the pocket and playing in the groove... and when you use the playalong dvd... there will be a click of course...
In short... if they're not practicing with a click, your band isn't practicing with a click and you have tempo problems it's not going to get better (which is of course the hole point of practicing)...
I personally used to hate it when the bass player would say to me it's too fast or too slow, and saying that doesn't fix the problem, what fixes the problem is practicing it right ... play it enough times at a certain tempo it'll just be there
Drummer are more aware of beat and less aware of music so tell them to keep eye contact.... if they're too arrogant or egotistical, you prolly don't wanna be playin with them anyway...
well i've ranted on long enough... good luck
Hardly a rant, good observations and advice.
I try to get the drummer I'm playing with to lock his kick with my lines ( or vice versa, if I'm out.); that way other minor variances don't seem so "out of time".
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Yep, and if you're ever in the studio and a drummer (or anyone for that matter) flat-out refuses to play to a click, run for the hills.
My current drummer is up and down like the guests in church at an Italian wedding!
I suggested a metronome and brought mine to our next rehearsal. I duct taped it to his kick drum and it made all the difference in the world. Heck, even the guitards and singer noticed!
Like anything in life, you must have a willingness to get better or the whole thing will come crashing down... see if you can get the drummer to step up to the plate and take this issue seriously... otherwise, time to replace "Rumpy".
PS... my knickname for our drummer.. Rumpy" taken from the old Xmas cartoon, The Little Drummer Boy... bah rump pah pum pum!
Fishheadjoe
I suggested a metronome and brought mine to our next rehearsal. I duct taped it to his kick drum and it made all the difference in the world. Heck, even the guitards and singer noticed!
Like anything in life, you must have a willingness to get better or the whole thing will come crashing down... see if you can get the drummer to step up to the plate and take this issue seriously... otherwise, time to replace "Rumpy".
PS... my knickname for our drummer.. Rumpy" taken from the old Xmas cartoon, The Little Drummer Boy... bah rump pah pum pum!
Fishheadjoe
Unfortunately, this is the truth. Keeping the meter steady is job one. If he is willing to work on this, then I'd say work with him. If not, I'd say get a new drummer.
That`s an idea, but even still I think that`s overkill.
To me, this is the same argument as practice vs. rehearsal.You should practice on your own (including tempo), but when you`re with a group you should all be on the same page. I guess things like this always depend on the band in question, but I know I`d be personally questioning whether the drummer had to go or me if the band I was in was forced to do this because of another players handicap.
... I know I sound like a total butt fungus here, but it`s just how I feel. YMMV.
I told my last drummer exactly that. I have a tendency to say exactly what I think while looking at the person right in the eye.
BUT the catch is to do it in an open discussion starting with: "What do you think I should do to work better with you?"
Ummm... these two statements are in direct contradiction to each other. If he can't hold tempo, he does NOT have the skill set to be a pop/rock drummer. Sorry. I hope you can straighten him out. If not, it's time to look for a new drummer if your band wants to go anywhere.
