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How TO Talk Your Drummer Into Controlling Tempo Better?
- Thread starter electracoyote
- Start date
Definitely record the gigs & have them listen. That has a great motivational effect IME and works on numerous problems.
One guy even quit drinking after hearing how he sounded on the gig!
One guy even quit drinking after hearing how he sounded on the gig!
This might be what it takes.
And to all who said drummers who just have a natural instinctive feel for appropriate tempos are like hen's teeth, I couldn't agree more.
My guitarist subs for another local band on occassion. I caught their show last weekend. The tempos were awesome. Laid back, in the groove, still very funky and danceable, without being rushed. I actually thought a couple of tunes were a tad slow, but it really helped the band members give great deliveries of their parts. Even the slightly dragging tunes sounded great.
I was so jealous.
that doesn't sound like a good drummer to me. . .
Yeah, what I meant by "good" was he has skills, chops, whatever you want to call it. But we all know, and the point of this thread, is skills and chops don't make you a good musician or band member. Forming or playing in the pocket does.
Any time I've played with a drummer who didn't keep the time, it was apparently due to volume issues. So make yourselves heard.
That being said, even if he can't hear you, he should still be able to maintain time by himself. That's why he should practice with a metronome.
Out of curiosity, does he play music that changes tempo? This is only my own curiosity asking this question.
That being said, even if he can't hear you, he should still be able to maintain time by himself. That's why he should practice with a metronome.
Out of curiosity, does he play music that changes tempo? This is only my own curiosity asking this question.
Recording and listening to your performance reveals many things you had little idea of.
Highly encouraged.
Highly encouraged.
See my tag line.I can be the drummers best friend or their worst enemy when it comes to this crap. I went 3 years in one gig before I had enough and bailed. I did everything humanly possible to help this guy and I got nowhere. Now I won't do a gig if the drummer has worse internal meter than I do. That's his/her job. If they can't bring it, I ain't playing all night trying to get in the prepetual moving pocket. Screw that.
Any drummer that's mature enough to recognize or accept that they have meter issues will accept the simple fact that they need help. A click. Period. The ones that fall to denial need to grow up because it's just a self-defeating attitude. Those folks will always be second-rate players. The key to improving is overcoming personal shortcomings.
Good luck with your drummer. Trying to help is the right thing to do but don't bust a nut doing it.
That's a good question. On tunes where you anticipate a change in tempo or feel, this is not an issue. It's on the songs that everyone knows has the same tempo from start to finish.
Just think of "Slow Ride." Perfect example. That song is on a set tempo until they get to the last 2:00 minutes or so, and then Foghat intentionally pushes the tempo. But in the middle, where the bass solo comes in, it's about the same tempo as it was counted in.
I can be the drummers best friend or their worst enemy when it comes to this crap. I went 3 years in one gig before I had enough and bailed. I did everything humanly possible to help this guy and I got nowhere. Now I won't do a gig if the drummer has worse internal meter than I do. That's his/her job. If they can't bring it, I ain't playing all night trying to get in the prepetual moving pocket. Screw that.
Any drummer that's mature enough to recognize or accept that they have meter issues will accept the simple fact that they need help. A click. Period. The ones that fall to denial need to grow up because it's just a self-defeating attitude. Those folks will always be second-rate players. The key to improving is overcoming personal shortcomings.
Good luck with your drummer. Trying to help is the right thing to do but don't bust a nut doing it.
Good stuff. That nails my sentiments precisely.
I just flat out tell my drummers. I don't do it in a negative way, but if they/we're rushing, dragging, whatever I just say it right away. You tend to push the bridge, we always rush that chorus, etc. Tempo is everyone's responsibility. It tends to fall on drummers - and bass players - and maybe we have a little more "say" but it's up to the entire band to groove.
Q. What is the difference between a Drummer and a Foot-Spa?
A. A Foot-Spa "Bucks up your Feet". . . . .
A. A Foot-Spa "Bucks up your Feet". . . . .
I do this frequently.
I ask the drummer to help me lock with a shaker track tigther.
We then work together with it.
sometimes it's just chemestry... as part of the rhythem section we all have room to improve.
I ask the drummer to help me lock with a shaker track tigther.
We then work together with it.
sometimes it's just chemestry... as part of the rhythem section we all have room to improve.
Q: What's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
A: You only have to punch the rhythm into the drum machine once.
A: You only have to punch the rhythm into the drum machine once.
How do you slow down a drummer?
Easy. But sheet music in front of them.
Or better yet, write a song in 5/8 meter. or 7/8, changing meter, metric modulation, etc.
I'm only like, 10% kidding.
Easy. But sheet music in front of them.
Or better yet, write a song in 5/8 meter. or 7/8, changing meter, metric modulation, etc.
I'm only like, 10% kidding.
This drummer says - most of you don't get it.
Guess who's responsible for the tempo in a band?
Everyone.
1. Everyone should be supporting and holding the tempo, not just the drummer.
2. You have to have a band discussion on who's going to drive making adjustments when things aren't right. Is this the drummer? Does he know this? In lots of bands I've been in, it Hasn't been the drummer. It's been someone else.
3. You have to make a decision on how important this is to you. Bottom line: many people can *not* be cured of time problems if they spent most of their life not being aware and working on it.
4. Quick test for everyone in the band: crank that metronome during rehearsal and see who derails. Some quote-unquote great players can't last 2 bars without derailing.
5. If you have players who can't play along to a tune beginning to end with total comfort without breaking the time, you probably want to run in the other direction.
Guess who's responsible for the tempo in a band?
Everyone.
1. Everyone should be supporting and holding the tempo, not just the drummer.
2. You have to have a band discussion on who's going to drive making adjustments when things aren't right. Is this the drummer? Does he know this? In lots of bands I've been in, it Hasn't been the drummer. It's been someone else.
3. You have to make a decision on how important this is to you. Bottom line: many people can *not* be cured of time problems if they spent most of their life not being aware and working on it.
4. Quick test for everyone in the band: crank that metronome during rehearsal and see who derails. Some quote-unquote great players can't last 2 bars without derailing.
5. If you have players who can't play along to a tune beginning to end with total comfort without breaking the time, you probably want to run in the other direction.
I've played with a few drummers who found it insulting if you suggested they couldn't set or keep tempo. It's beyond maddening to me. I suggested a metronome to one, and he gave us the "if I play to a click track, it won't sound natural" line. Horsesh*t. Job #1 is to keep time. Everything else comes later.
Lots of time I turn to drummers and "lead" them on the tempo, with pronounced head movements. They learn the lesson eventually; when I'm staring at them and doing it, they know they're way off. When I close my eyes but keep nodding, they're close. When I turn away, they're on. If I have to turn back around...
Of course, this only works if your drummer a) cares, and b) respects your ability to know/keep time. I've been lucky in that respect, for the most part.
-jb
Lots of time I turn to drummers and "lead" them on the tempo, with pronounced head movements. They learn the lesson eventually; when I'm staring at them and doing it, they know they're way off. When I close my eyes but keep nodding, they're close. When I turn away, they're on. If I have to turn back around...
Of course, this only works if your drummer a) cares, and b) respects your ability to know/keep time. I've been lucky in that respect, for the most part.
-jb
No, he is NOT technically very good. Tempo is one of those absolutely fundamental skills that a drummer must have - and if he doesn't have it, he's a n00b.
After meter is dynamics - - so many young drummers have to whack the devil out of their tubs - and they get insulted if you tell them to lay back or to use hot-rods. Kids. Whattayagonnado?
I say axe him.
After meter is dynamics - - so many young drummers have to whack the devil out of their tubs - and they get insulted if you tell them to lay back or to use hot-rods. Kids. Whattayagonnado?
I say axe him.
as I am a drummer and just try to play bass let me try to shed some light on this subject
1: don't tell the drummer it's too fast or too slow, tell him "we're not in sync" then work with him.
2: trying to get a drummer to slow down or speed up buy turning your volume up is only going to make them play louder as well, a battle the bassist will usually lose, try to be diplomatic, encouraging... say like 'the pocket was so close, just a bit fast.
3: it's a misnomer to think that it's easier to play slower... it's actually quite harder... the more space, the more problem it is... you'll want to practice with a click (a cowbell is my preference)... practice doesn't make perfect practice makes permanent... if you practice wrong it'll be wrong
which leads me to my last point...
If a drummer doesn't practice with a click his time will most likely suck... time doesn't come naturally it ttakes practice, It doesn't matter how fast a drummer can play 6 stroke rolls, paradiddles or swiss army triplets, if they can't hold a tempo they're next to worthless...
My last suggestion (regardless of what type of music you play)... get him to buy the tommy igoe groove essentials book/dvd which will EMPHASIZE the pocket and playing in the groove... and when you use the playalong dvd... there will be a click of course...
In short... if they're not practicing with a click, your band isn't practicing with a click and you have tempo problems it's not going to get better (which is of course the hole point of practicing)...
I personally used to hate it when the bass player would say to me it's too fast or too slow, and saying that doesn't fix the problem, what fixes the problem is practicing it right ... play it enough times at a certain tempo it'll just be there
Drummer are more aware of beat and less aware of music so tell them to keep eye contact.... if they're too arrogant or egotistical, you prolly don't wanna be playin with them anyway...
well i've ranted on long enough... good luck
1: don't tell the drummer it's too fast or too slow, tell him "we're not in sync" then work with him.
2: trying to get a drummer to slow down or speed up buy turning your volume up is only going to make them play louder as well, a battle the bassist will usually lose, try to be diplomatic, encouraging... say like 'the pocket was so close, just a bit fast.
3: it's a misnomer to think that it's easier to play slower... it's actually quite harder... the more space, the more problem it is... you'll want to practice with a click (a cowbell is my preference)... practice doesn't make perfect practice makes permanent... if you practice wrong it'll be wrong
which leads me to my last point...
If a drummer doesn't practice with a click his time will most likely suck... time doesn't come naturally it ttakes practice, It doesn't matter how fast a drummer can play 6 stroke rolls, paradiddles or swiss army triplets, if they can't hold a tempo they're next to worthless...
My last suggestion (regardless of what type of music you play)... get him to buy the tommy igoe groove essentials book/dvd which will EMPHASIZE the pocket and playing in the groove... and when you use the playalong dvd... there will be a click of course...
In short... if they're not practicing with a click, your band isn't practicing with a click and you have tempo problems it's not going to get better (which is of course the hole point of practicing)...
I personally used to hate it when the bass player would say to me it's too fast or too slow, and saying that doesn't fix the problem, what fixes the problem is practicing it right ... play it enough times at a certain tempo it'll just be there
Drummer are more aware of beat and less aware of music so tell them to keep eye contact.... if they're too arrogant or egotistical, you prolly don't wanna be playin with them anyway...
well i've ranted on long enough... good luck
I hear you,... our drummer is all over the map, too fast, too slow, sometimes in the same song...
Lots of times when songs sound too slow in another band, its because you're so used to playing it way too fast with your band...
I'm amazed when I go listen to the original recordings sometimes...
Randy
