How TO Talk Your Drummer Into Controlling Tempo Better?

[troubleboy]

http://temporef.com/temporef.htm

I recommend a Tempo Ref (approx $100) to every drummer I play with. I even bought one for our new drummer. It's not so much a metronome as much as it acts more like a speedometer, measuring the distance between snare hits by way of a sensor mounted on the snare head. For instance, if the tempo of the song is 120 beats per min. and the snare hits on 2 and 4 during the verse, the drummer should be seeing a readout of 60. It can, however, store 60 preset kickoff tempos as a metronome, automatically going into tempo ref mode as soon as the snare is hit. I determine the tempos using djbpm, which is a free download, and list the actual tempos as well as the target number after each song on his setlists. By using it all the time the song tempos become naturally ingrained in the whole band, and the band naturally becomes tighter while still being able to breathe. I very highly recommend this to anyone. It's also a great argument solver.

 

[Gopherbassist]

He needs to concentrate on Job1, keeping the tempo and YOU need to keep him honest on the gig. Don't let him speed up, you need to stop him when he first starts to push it.

This.


You may feel like you instrument is separate, but you have to treat it like everyone is playing one instrument This is a part of playing music that is anything but solo.

 

[t bake]

He is the drummer keep time or keep walking, would folks putup with vocals out of pitch most of the time NO!! bass player out of key NO!the number one skill for a drummer TIME! music without time = noise.dont want to sound harsh but think of what drummers job is,,jumping off my soap box now God Bless Gig On!!!

 

[steveksux]

YOU'RE FIRED!!

Takes time. Nothing you say is going to fix it anytime soon.

He won't take it seriously until you fire him.

Randy

 

[electracoyote]

At rehearsal this evening, drummer in question voluntarily offered to revisit a couple of the songs that went Toyota Prius on us the other night. I didn't have to say a word. We went through them, he really focused and kept the tempos appropriate and helped us create a nice pocket to play in. I never felt rushed and all my licks riffs and other parts came out very nicely.

It's hard to get mad at a musician who is trying and willing to learn.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

At rehearsal this evening, drummer in question voluntarily offered to revisit a couple of the songs that went Toyota Prius on us the other night. I didn't have to say a word. We went through them, he really focused and kept the tempos appropriate and helped us create a nice pocket to play in. I never felt rushed and all my licks riffs and other parts came out very nicely.

It's hard to get mad at a musician who is trying and willing to learn.

Maybe he has a friend on TB

 

[electracoyote]

Maybe he has a friend on TB

Ya never know.

I had my whole speech all prepared, I outlined several of the suggestions we discussed on this thread, I brought along several metronomes. I was gonna make a stand.

And the bastard goes and beats me to the punch. How dare he.

 

[Intenzity]

The drummer in my band is technically very good...

Uh...no he isn't.

His job is to keep time, if he cant do that, he is good at hitting things in a somewhat random fashion, but he is not a good drummer.

 

[jtroska]

How are you guys using the click track or metronome? Are you feeding the click through headphones to each band member? Or do you only feed it to the drummer? Or do you just crank it loudly through a speaker at rehearsals (not at a gig, of course)?

That TempoRef device looks interesting, too.

 

[DiabolicLow B]

The click track is fed only to our drummer, he has a laptop on a stand beside his kit which is fed into a small 4 channel mixer so he can control the volume, he starts each track and counts us in as normal, he wears only one earbud and it is not really that noticable at all.
We also use sequences for a lot of our material, some of which is also fed through to him as well as our stage monitors.

 

[Oopsdabassist]

You have a talking drummer????? WOW!

joking aside, IMO your comment to him at the gig I could have understood to have meant you were all playing well, in which case his 'enjoy the ride' doesn't come across as sarcastic at all, he possibly saw it as encouragement!

It sounds like he wants to change, you're lucky, nuture him and have a good band vibe, its worth it!

 

[walker rosewood]

At rehearsal this evening, drummer in question voluntarily offered to revisit a couple of the songs that went Toyota Prius on us the other night.

Hahahaha! well done.

 

[wideyes]

Don't rush with him. Hold back the tempo where you know it should be.

This. As a band, the rest of you need to be on your game about tempo. You're all going to need to get better. If anybody is the only person in the band playing out of tempo, they'll notice and adjust. If it's clear it's just them and they don't notice, that's bad. It IS the whole band's responsibility to manage tempo; having said that, the drummer is traditionally tasked with it. I find drummers are usually overplaying when they speed up.

As a drummer myself, I do not understand why folks with such poor time ever try to take it up. I played with a drummer once who wasn't counting (nor the guitardist, for that matter). We were missing a change and I told them to just count through it. They both gave me this blank, "how do I do that" look.

I think there are many skills that go into being a good musician (with LISTENING being #1, who woulda thought?), and I frankly don't have time to waste with folks who're still learning how many beats per measure we're playing in.

 

[groovatron]

Yep! I find that a good, working, pro drummer has no problem playing to, or without a metronome. That's what a good drummer does.

EVERY musician should practice to a metronome. Even a sax player can destroy a groove with bad time. The groove is dependent on every player in the band.

Disagree......15 years of playing and I have never practiced with a metronome......in fact, I despise them....but that's just me. Only time I play with a metronome (and reluctantly so) is when mapping out tracks in the studio. I have friends that swear by practicing with a metronome.....but they are also guys that don't have inherent rhythm.

Now with melody, some are natural at that. Not me. I suck and always have to practice to keep up with those that have it as a second nature.

If a drummer can't keep time or listen to the rest of the band, then they need to start from square one. I could care less how many fills or flashy technique a drummer can pull off. If he can't stay in the pocket, he's no good to me.

 

[denhou1974]

I don't think that I would want to play with a metronome or click track. IMHO it tends to rob the song of humanistic qualities.

 

[electracoyote]

I agree with wideyes in that the band can influence a drummer who loses control of the tempo. One of my proposed solutions was for the guitarist and I to stand on the same side of the stage (we're currently on opposite sides and I hate it). He and I share similar feelings about tempo. If the tempo got loose, we would give each other a glance, pull back, and stare holes through the drummer until he caught on. It wouldn't take but a few beats.

Also, I have trouble forcing a click or metronome on a resistant drummer, because I hate using them myself. I do a one-man show supported by pre-recorded and programmed parts, and I have to wear an earbud to catch the count-ins and drop-outs sometimes. I hate it. Drives me nuts. Can't wait to tear that thing out of my head by the end of a set.

But it is preferable to the runaway train, I'll concede that.

 

[groovatron]

I don't think that I would want to play with a metronome or click track. IMHO it tends to rob the song of humanistic qualities.

I tend to agree.....however, for certain mapped tracking with lots of edits and takes, it is necessity. If it's not a requirement for a paticular recording, then no need......that is, if you are playing with competent musicians.

 

[steveksux]

I don't think that I would want to play with a metronome or click track. IMHO it tends to rob the song of humanistic qualities.

Not driected at you, just at your comment, it applies to anyone in the same situation...

If you feel that way, my suggestion is to spend more time with the metronome. The beat is in there with a drummer too. If you can follow a drummer, no reason you shouldn't be able to follow a metronome.

If this is happening, its because the drummer and rest of the band are lurching around the beat following each other, or the added instrumentation hides the flaws. If you recorded it, and listened back, might be sounding just as clunky as with the metronome.

So often the "groove" is a little off the beat, but to be off the beat well, you need to be aware of where the beat is.

When it sounds good alone, or with a band, and clunky with a metronome, the problem is you can't tell its clunky without the metronome. The metronome is merely making the flaws obvious. That is a GOOD THING! Flaws that are hidden cannot be corrected. The more obvious the flaws are, the easier it is to find and fix them, and the easier it is to tell when they are really corrected rather than merely masked.

Playing with a metronome sucks at first, its hard. It sounds horrible, you're all over the place. You begin to internalize the tempo, the steady beat as time goes on, and it gets better. Finally it should feel natural.

Then when you play with a drummer who can keep a steady tempo, you realize what a groove really is...

Pros add more energy to a song. Amateurs add more speed and volume instead. That is NOT the same thing.

Playing with a metronome is hard. However, you should ALWAYS be practicing things that are hard to do, not going over things that you can already do easily.
Randy

 

[trunkshope6]

had the same problem,just gotta let him know every time he speeds up

 

[MonkeyBass]

So often the "groove" is a little off the beat, but to be off the beat well, you need to be aware of where the beat is.

When it sounds good alone, or with a band, and clunky with a metronome, the problem is you can't tell its clunky without the metronome. The metronome is merely making the flaws obvious. That is a GOOD THING! Flaws that are hidden cannot be corrected. The more obvious the flaws are, the easier it is to find and fix them, and the easier it is to tell when they are really corrected rather than merely masked.

Playing with a metronome sucks at first, its hard. It sounds horrible, you're all over the place. You begin to internalize the tempo, the steady beat as time goes on, and it gets better. Finally it should feel natural.

Then when you play with a drummer who can keep a steady tempo, you realize what a groove really is...

Pros add more energy to a song. Amateurs add more speed and volume instead. That is NOT the same thing.
Randy

This