How to tell my parents?

[TimK]

2. it does not take a college degree from a big music school to get into it. i know many highly trained musicians from colleges that are competing for the same gigs i compete for. i also know many untrained (and in many cases, untalented) people making pretty good bucks because they have other skills, like being able to find work and network. not once have i been asked what college i went to study music. having said that, i'm not at all against paying for education in music, and to be fair there are quite a few folks who have gotten work through networking at college, but it's not the be-all and end-all it's made out to be in the brochures. for every big name that emerges from a college, there are a couple thousand others you'll never hear of.

I agree with this point!!! You don't need to take out $90k in student loans from berklee to make music your career. I have a music minor from a Univeristy and have shared gigs with Berklee guys.

I played a gig recently with a berklee guitar player. He told me he had $90k in student loan debt ($700/ month payments for 30 years!!!!). This was how he was paying for it. he worked an entry level day job for like $10/ hour Full time (because he didn't have a degree that he could "apply" to the "real world", then taught 3-5 lessons a day and gig'd as often as he could (2-4 nights a week), not making more than $100 a night playing guitar in a dance/pop cover band.

I was in the same band he was in, making more than double what he was making at his day job and playing in the same band, making the same amount of money. AND... I have $0 student loan debt!!!

I'm very passionate about my music and invest a lot in it because it's what I love. If I wanted to I could be a FT musician and hope to make the same amount of money i do at my "normal job" but then i'd have no insurance, or 401k, and likely be on the road all the time away from my family.
So instead I work like the rest of the stiffs and can be selective about the gigs I take ad still make $$ playing music!!

that is just my take. I'm sure many people do it differently and are happy and successful

 

[ggunn]

I think that the bottom line is that here is no definitive solution. Life is a poker game and there are no guarantees; you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I am perhaps more risk-adverse than some others, but I wouldn't advise anyone to go "all in" at 16 or 17 and spend a ton of money on a degree from Berklee unless he is a trust fund kid, especially not in light of what I believe economic conditions are likely to be going forward. I believe that folks are going to find it harder and harder to justify spending money on entertainment as time goes on, and depending on that revenue stream for your livelihood is going to be a more and more risky proposition. There's also the fact that the music business as a whole is in dire straits.

I am not advocating getting stuck in a profession you hate. I am, however, recommending that you find something else more likely to support you that you like and pursue it as a primary objective. You can always find a place for music in your life. Incidentally, most of the folks I know who got stuck in fields that they hate are those who were not proactive about their life direction and ended up where the wind blew them. Whatever you do, take an active stand.

 

[JimmyM]

I agree with this point!!! You don't need to take out $90k in student loans from berklee to make music your career.

well i do have to reiterate i'm not at all against paying for an education in music. i've spent a couple grand over the decades my own self. but i do think folks need to keep it in perspective about what could happen with the big debts and stuff, and maybe hedge their best a little and get a degree in something else as well, or at least study other aspects and don't just concentrate solely on performance.

 

[Jefenator]

There was a wise man who said, if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life.

I sometimes tell people I retired at age 25.

 

[m_bisson]

Another option is to see if you can come to school in Canada.... School here is like 10% of the cost that it is in the states. Yay government!

 

[basskababble]

Do it. No matter what. I told myself that I could still have music if I got my degree in advertising. I still do, but not nearly as much as I would like to. If your dad wants you to make money (you'll want to make that too, but feed off your bill-less lifestyle and let that guide you into finding what you really want to do) then you can always get into music law. You can learn protools, be a stage hand, and even instruct. You can do all that without a degree, but getting the degree from berkley will guarantee you the opportunity (notice I say the opportunity, not the job).

It's incredibly good that you're thinking about what you want to do at this age. I only have 7 years on you, but at that time I was sure I wanted to be in graphic design. That grew into a love for advertising, and in spite of my current complaint that I didn't pursue music, I'm very happy with my career, and pretty happy where I am (i'm on TB at work, so pretty happy is an overstatement. I'd much rather be challenged. That's a whole different thread). A good friend asked me if I could do anything what would it be, after telling my how much potential I have. I answered that I'd want to own an independent record label. I now know that that's something I could've worked towards from your age. A degree from berkley would give me an upper hand, much more credit as a musician, and a million more contacts nationwide.

As far as approaching your father... If I could talk to him for you I'd tell him this:
There's a million kids protesting in New York because they have degrees (even masters) and can't find jobs. How many people have degrees in finance that are completely stuck. If 8 years from now we're on our third or fifth recession (it's all the same one really) then I'd (you) MUCH rather be doing what I love. They say money isn't everything... nowadays money isn't anything, because no one has it. All the old ways of guaranteeing six figures are out the window. I'd rather be a middle class music teacher then an out of work stock broker. And if you don't want to be pessimistic about it, or want to say that it's all the more reason to seek a higher paying career, you're right. You could be completely right... but if you are right, I might still regret not going with my gut for the rest of my life. If you're wrong, I'll regret it even more. It's not worth the risk.

 

[majormishap]

Dam.....It's an old thread but ....but only now read by me......great advice ...I guess....
But on the other hand you can always just go for it.....jazz, as an example is full time.....
there is no way you could listen to all the music you need to hear in order to get a nice feel for jazz.......most of the cats here would tell you the same.....
Yeah....in a sense your life is over when you begin the great chase.....to be able to hear some long dead 'jazz cat' and know who it is ,and the era he played in.....it goes on forever....

good luck my young brother......

 

[funkythumb]

Been there, done that. My father was a surgeon. He pushed me down the road toward medicine. I felt pressured. While I earned my BA in Bio/pre-med, I was playing bass for fun doing talent shows and gigs in college.
After earning my bio BA and spending another couple years trying other areas like law, I finally realized music was the only thing that made me happy and was the only thing I wanted to do. I finally got up the courage to tell my dad and had a straight forward talk with him. He realized I was serious.
My decision to break with a traditional "professional" career and follow music permanently changed my relationship with my father till the very day he died.
I never went back to a four year college for music. I opted instead to take classes at a couple vocational music schools along with taking private lessons.
All along this journey, I read about my favorite players in jazz and fusion, many of whom only attended college for 2 years or not at all. I realized that when it comes to performance in pop/jazz, no one really cares where you went to school, rather only if you can play. The paper only really matters if you want to teach at a college.
I've played with tons of players from Berklee and other schools. Some are amazing and others are not.
So, it's not ultimately about where you go to school but rather your drive, ambition, hard work and talent. You'll get the information from somewhere. Sure I would have loved to have gone to college for music, but it wasn't in the cards.
I'm now 42 years old. I own and live in a very nice house. I'm married with one son. I make a living playing and teaching music in town with occasional out-of-town work. My wife works as well. We're happy, debt free, and are able to take vacations AND have a 401K.
You can make it happen without taking the traditional path of going to school.
I once asked bass legend Jimmy Johnson about his musical training. His answer.....he's never taken a music lesson in his life.
I asked double bassist Dave Stone about his education. His response was that he was professionally gigging at 18 and never went to college. I've hung out at his huge house on the hill from years back.
You can dooo it man!!!!

 

[Stumbo]

My decision to break with a traditional "professional" career and follow music permanently changed my relationship with my father till the very day he died.

Sorry to hear that about you and your dad. It's tough when one allows themselves to think what their children do for a living reflects badly on oneself. Life's too short. Congrats on following your dreams.

 

[funkythumb]

Sorry to hear that about you and your dad. It's tough when one allows themselves to think what their children do for a living reflects badly on oneself. Life's too short. Congrats on following your dreams.

Thanks bro. My dad and I were never the same after that. That's why I included that fact in my post to warn our bass brother that your decisions in life can change your relationships with parents, etc.
I'm glad you picked up on it and emphasized that sentence in your response.
You're right when adding that life's too short. You can give your kids advice but in the end, they have to follow their dreams to seek fulfillment. All you can is support them and let them do their thing. If they fail, so be it. If they succeed, all the better. Life is too short to sit in judgment of others and project anger and disapproval. In the end, you'll look back and regret the negative energy and broken relationship you created over the last 30 years.
I've seen so many "professionals" switch careers looking for what makes them happy. They waste half their life searching before they finally listen to their inner voice.
Following your heart and fighting through fear is a lesson that we constantly have to reinforce throughout our life in all of our dealings.
My previous sentence reminds me of a movie from the 80's with Merrill Streep called Defending Your Life. It's actually a light, comedy where people (in a type of pergatory) are judged by a panel of judges, not on how much money they made or how famous they were on earth but by how well they dealt with fear in their lives.
peace

 

[BassJunkie]

My parents told me a career in music wouldn't work. We argued, and basically ended with me telling them that they've never tired, so how would they know? 15 years later, I live solely off of my music career. I play at least 2 gigs every week, and teach about 15 students. It's not an easy life grinding out your rent everyday, sometimes there are money scares, but it has been very rewarding. The jazz drummer Carl Allen came to our music college one day and told us, "The best backup plan is to have no backup plan at all." That may not be true for everyone, but it still motivates me to this day.

EDIT> also, the place you choose to live and go to school will have a huge impact on your early career. A small town in the middle of nowhere will have a small network, and no demand for live music. NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, these cities all have great music schools, a public need for live music, and a huge network of young musicians trying to do the same thing you are.

 

[funkythumb]

If you're planning on being a plastic surgeon then by all means take out a loan for $200,000. You'll pay it off before you know it.
As a musician, it's much riskier. You take a serious risk of being in financial servitude to these schools for the rest of your life.
Famous bassist, Putter Smith, once told our class that he believes musicians, for the most part, should not be given large loans for school.
What's sad is that I've heard of very mediocre singers coming out of Berklee with very little hope of making it and saddled with loans of well over $100,000. That is simply ridiculous.
A fairly successful musician can handle the monthly payments but not without feeling the pinch.
Anyway, my advice, if you can get your parents to pay for it, then let them and get the best musical education you can. If they won't pay for it, then find a respectable vocational music school or even state college that offers a decent program for much less.
John Patittucci went to Long Beach State for heaven's sake and didn't even finish to get his degree. Look how high he's gone. Some outstanding players have gone to Cal State Northridge for little money or taken modest loans.
Point is, you don't need to go crazy with taking loans. You can get a great education at many other schools. It's all up to you how fast you grow based on how hard you work!!!

 

[SMILEYSIXX]

I've yet to tell my dad but my mom pretty much knows by now. My mom encouraged me but told me to go for a backup degree for safe measure. Not sure about that yet... but as of now, my plan is to move somewhere where I have a better shot than my ****ty, musicless town and take a year off school to test the waters. I'm considering going back home to Pittsburgh, but Amsterdam is another possibility I'm tossing around.

 

[SMILEYSIXX]

By the way guys, thanks for bringing this thread back up. It's always encouraging to hear what others have done.

 

[funkythumb]

Don't prepare for failure, by simultaneously working on a back up plan. Prepare for success by immersing yourself in your work. Once you're up and running, if you find yourself constantly in need of extra money, THEN focus on a sideline to help out.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Don't prepare for failure, by simultaneously working on a back up plan. Prepare for success by immersing yourself in your work. Once you're up and running, if you find yourself constantly in need of extra money, THEN focus on a sideline to help out.

That was my strategy as well. Ironically, if I had opted for my backup plan (the family plumbing supply business) I would likely be prowling the aisles of some Big Box Home Store with a vest and a name tag and posting this on my iPhone surreptitiously since most of the small building/plumbing supply houses in my hometown have been driven out of business by Lowe's/Home Depot.
The rub is that most people have a hard time really immersing themselves in their work. It's way easier to talk about bass, make snarky comments about other players/styles, have G.A.S. attacks, and read about basses and bassists than it is to actually show up and do the work.
Here's a link to the 10,000 hours strategy that many (including me) are espousing these days:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The interesting thing about your strategy is that if that's your course of action it's extremely possible that the sideline will end up being music related as well (private lessons, production, arranging, etc.). That's definitely been my experience, FWIW.

 

[LennyPenny]

I'm kind of in your situation as well. Music is the one thing I unconditionally have a passion for and if things had gone the way I wanted them to when I was your age, I'd be nowhere. My dad wanted me to get a backup plan first and I'm glad I followed his advice.
The only classes I was any good at at school were languages so I decided to go with that. I've tried university for a year but that didn't work out. Now I'm halfway through my Bachelor in applied linguistics (with which you can become translator/interpreter). It's not something I'd love to be doing for a living, but I can see myself at least enjoying a career as a translator. And if things won't work out in music, I'll still have a degree to fall back on.
I can't really give any advice about the Berklee thing but clearly there are enough people here who can.

Hope you can relate to this is some way.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I've yet to tell my dad but my mom pretty much knows by now. My mom encouraged me but told me to go for a backup degree for safe measure. Not sure about that yet... but as of now, my plan is to move somewhere where I have a better shot than my ****ty, musicless town and take a year off school to test the waters. I'm considering going back home to Pittsburgh, but Amsterdam is another possibility I'm tossing around.

As a parent, I would find Amsterdam worrisome. There's definitely a nice Music Scene there (as in most major European cities) but it strikes me as a place with too many distractions and temptations (insert "coffee bars" with hemp dispensaries here) that I'd worry about subjecting a 19 year old fledgling bassist to...
Just sayin'....

 

[trueno87]

Hey if you Major in music become a music teacher, something i've been thinking about, you have tons of vacation and summers off if you need to tour or heck just get your degree and teach on and off if you'd like, but its a good career and its doing what you love, MUSIC!

 

[SMILEYSIXX]

As a parent, I would find Amsterdam worrisome. There's definitely a nice Music Scene there (as in most major European cities) but it strikes me as a place with too many distractions and temptations (insert "coffee bars" with hemp dispensaries here) that I'd worry about subjecting a 19 year old fledgling bassist to...
Just sayin'....

I totally understand. Every time I tell someone where I wanna go, I need to add "No, I don't smoke" to the end of it. Anything that would inhibit or interfere with my music is not something I'm interested it.