How would you mic a fEarful?

[scottfeldstein]

If I was using multiple FX and pedals and EQ, and then sent THAT signal to the house (before amp) then the analogy holds.

That's pretty much what I'm doing.

I get that it's the engineer's job to EQ your rig sound into a FOH sound. It just seems to me that his job is easier when he and I aren't working at what could be cross-purposes. Besides, supposing I wanted to tweak my EQ mid-show? There's no reason my change should go to the FOH.

One's mileage may definitely vary, however, and I defer to the more experienced players in the discussion. Nothing makes me think twice about my position than when Jimmy has the opposite one.

 

[Marcus Willett]

...supposing I wanted to tweak my EQ mid-show? There's no reason my change should go to the FOH.

There's every reason for it. What if I want a different sound for a solo? It seems to work just fine if a guitarist calls up a completely different solo tone than his rhythm tone. Somehow, sound guys deal with it. But if a bassist changes anything he's causing problems and being difficult to work with.

Nothing makes me think twice about my position than when Jimmy has the opposite one.

Hell, for me that just reaffirms it.

 

[fdeck]

If you're going to mic your speaker, don't forget to mic the port.

 

[scottfeldstein]

There's every reason for it. What if I want a different sound for a solo? It seems to work just fine if a guitarist calls up a completely different solo tone than his rhythm tone. Somehow, sound guys deal with it.

Yeah, he'll deal with my changes, too--the ones I make on the guitar and on my board. I guess I just have a mental set where my rig--my amp head and my cabs--are just for me and the stage.

Unless of course there's just a vocal PA or I'm for whatever reason delivering my FOH sound from the stage.

 

[Marcus Willett]

I guess I just have a mental set where my rig--my amp head and my cabs--are just for me and the stage.

And that is totally cool, if that is your choice. What I object to is that choice being forced upon me, or anyone because it might require someone to work harder. That's why boards have EQ.

If this means I gotta spend extra time letting him dial stuff in and hear different tones, that's fine. I'm willing to give that time to make it better. If after that it just does not work, then we can look into other options, which may be a bass to DI setup. But I don't have to automatically give up my rig and tone just as a matter of practice.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Perhaps I can earn back a bit of cred in this discussion by saying that if any sound engineer wished to DI me directly from my bass I'd flat-out refuse. No ifs ands or buts. Take it from the end of my board or mic the cab. The end.

 

[Marcus Willett]

Or just show him the same concern, respect and consideration of your artistry and contribution that he shows you.

 

[scottfeldstein]

None at all?

Seriously, though. Twenty-five years ago I was a kid working for a live sound company. Mostly I hauled cabs, ran cables and did the stage lighting. I wasn't playing live myself at the time, but I was an aspiring musician. During those years I heard some excellent PA sound--and some pretty poor stuff. I've heard bass guitar become nothing but gut-churning bumps coming out of 15" scoops or 18" W-cabs--or vanish altogether. But I've also heard it mixed well with good tone. I saw all kinds of rigs, all kinds of players and all kinds of venues. It was really a pretty decent education in that side of the biz.

 

[Joe Louvar]

I'm asking mostly out of curiosity, but I have had the idea of building a 1212/6 fEarful rolling around in my head.

When micing these cabs, would it require two mics, on for the 12 and one for the 6?

if i was doing it i might put two mics on it and run a di too

 

[JdoubleH]

If you're going to mic your speaker, don't forget to mic the port.

Shirley, you jest! You'd probably need two, since the port is divided in two

...
When micing these cabs, would it require two mics, on for the 12 and one for the 6?

Seriously though, you should only ever want one mic, if you must, placed where it sounds best. Two mic's on a single instrument = bad, IMO, unless one of them is there as a hot-standby (muted). More mics on stage = muddier, harder to control sound with more phase issues and bleed through. Again, IMO and IME.

I vote DI where possible.

 

[JdoubleH]

if i was doing it i might put two mics on it and run a di too

... and if I were running the board that night, I would pick the the one that sounded best out in the room and mute the others

 

[Joe Louvar]

Shirley, you jest! You'd probably need two, since the port is divided in two



Seriously though, you should only ever want one mic, if you must, placed where it sounds best. Two mic's on a single instrument = bad, IMO, unless one of them is there as a hot-standby (muted). More mics on stage = muddier, harder to control sound with more phase issues and bleed through. Again, IMO and IME.

I vote DI where possible.

Nonsense - for example drums plus you better use two mics on a leslie speaker if you want to capture the whole cab and etc - but yeah, mute mics not in use.

And always run a DI too.

 

[Joe Louvar]

... and if I were running the board that night, I would pick the the one that sounded best out in the room and mute the others

+1, exactly

 

[JdoubleH]

Nonsense - for example drums plus you better use two mics on a leslie speaker if you want to capture the whole cab and etc - but yeah, mute mics not in use.

And always run a DI too.

With drums you have multiple instruments with varying timbre spaced much wider apart. This often makes a single mic impractical, though not unheard of. I prefer a single overhead and maybe a kick, if I can get away with it. I've never mic'd a Leslie, but I'll take your word for it.

But with bass, the audience hears one instrument. The drivers work in concert, albeit at separate frequencies, to produce the full range of the instrument. Those two sound sources are also very close together making mic placement much simpler than drums. In fact, they are choose enough that you wouldn't be able to isolate each to the intended driver. Phase will be an issue and what the audience hears will likely be quite different than what is coming from the cab. Even if you are able to get pleasing results during sound check, a slight bump of the mic stand or tug of the cable could result in the inadvertent release of flying phase monkeys.

 

[BurningSkies]

Leslie double mic'ing works because you've got a spinning horn, and the sound is dependent upon the Doppler effect that that motion provides. I'd consider running it in stereo Through the PA. I've recorded an organ and found that unless you separate the channels well, they end up cancelling themselves out and sounding thin and weak.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Yeah, well then It’s probably best you stick with what you’re comfortable with.

Don’t try this at home kids.

 

[JdoubleH]

Leslie double mic'ing works because you've got a spinning horn, and the sound is dependent upon the Doppler effect that that motion provides. I'd consider running it in stereo Through the PA. I've recorded an organ and found that unless you separate the channels well, they end up cancelling themselves out and sounding thin and weak.

Phase monkey of the organ grinding persuasion, perhaps?

 

[BurningSkies]

Phase monkey of the organ grinding persuasion, perhaps?

Definitely. I even get this with Leslie sim if not careful.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/micing-lds-15-6-bass-cabinet-599751/

 

[Joe Louvar]

First - the OP question wasn’t asking about a DI , it’s about micing a fEARful 1212/6. So lets say the band is jammed into a tight spot and you have No DI and the 1212/6 bass cab is right next to a loud Marshall stack so you have to close mic the bass cab - do you just mic a woofer or do you mic both a woofer and mid?

Cheers