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How would you mic a fEarful?

#41
Joe Louvar said:
First - the OP question wasn’t asking about a DI , it’s about micing a fEARful 1212/6. So lets say the band is jammed into a tight spot and you have No DI and the 1212/6 bass cab is right next to a loud Marshall stack so you have to close mic the bass cab - do you just mic a woofer or do you mic both a woofer and mid? ;)
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Who the hell knows, Joe? ;) It's all dependent on the cab design, the mic, the room, etc. But if I'm jammed into a tight spot, I would just go with stage volume anyway.

You can certainly tell who's mic'ed and who hasn't in here. It's really not a big deal. All these so-called drawbacks are easily overcome. It's just another sound source. When you have 2 or more vocal mics, guitar cab mic, drum mics, horn mics maybe...a bass cab mic is going to be the least of your worries. I don't get the fear.
 
#42
Sounds like many of you have had bad experiences with uneductaed soundmen.
While I did alot of live sound, I spent a huge number of hours engineering in a twin 24-track remote truck. Everything from the Kennedy Center, rock dates, Go-Go, country, jazz, live to broadcast, feed to video truck, and a million gospel recording dates. Many of these projects would have further overdubs in our studio as well as final mixing. Think about this:

* How many console channels can you devote to bass; how long a soundcheck, are you the opener, do you have time to experiment; how much time for a set change; what got signed off on in your rider. Most don't think about this detail
* What kind of music, how loud the stage volume and how loud the monitor mix. A single acoustic guitar and piano can alter mike choice if the players are deaf as a post and have lot of monitor volume (which equates to controlling mic bleed)
* What sound is the producer going for assuming you can make the above work
* I have double mic'd: crossed over MI cabinets, Hammond; imitation Hammond, piano (usually 3 mic's on a 9' or bigger grand), concert harp, acoustic guitar, DB (did some recording of Keeter Bets at BET before they built their own truck; the instrument can be caprtured many ways with 1 or 2 mics plus a DI) etc.; observance of mic position, angle, and phase control are all used to the engineer's advantage
* Additionally, a DI is usually used for recording as a safety for on stage amp failure but also to have a clean signal for re-amping in the studio
* If you HAVE to generalize, you might try a dynamic mic on the low end and a condensor on the brighter feed assuming the bleed isn't awefull with the condesnor (gobo's, rugs on piano lids, acrylic drum partitions, spearate imp in iso booth away from the stage, etc are also used for control)

There is no hard and fast answer on this subject
If it was a 100 - 500 seat room and your using the PA for light to medium bass support and have limited time and money, find the sweet spot for your single, beat up Shure mic; in the right circumstance this may be the BEST choice.
 
#43
JimmyM said:
Who the hell knows, Joe? ;) It's all dependent on the cab design, the mic, the room, etc. But if I'm jammed into a tight spot, I would just go with stage volume anyway.

You can certainly tell who's mic'ed and who hasn't in here. It's really not a big deal. All these so-called drawbacks are easily overcome. It's just another sound source. When you have 2 or more vocal mics, guitar cab mic, drum mics, horn mics maybe...a bass cab mic is going to be the least of your worries. I don't get the fear.
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lol. well Jimmy, i wouldn’t tell you we couldn’t use you mic. ;)
 
#44
Joe Louvar said:
First - the OP question wasn’t asking about a DI , it’s about micing a fEARful 1212/6. So lets say the band is jammed into a tight spot and you have No DI and the 1212/6 bass cab is right next to a loud Marshall stack so you have to close mic the bass cab - do you just mic a woofer or do you mic both a woofer and mid? ;)

Cheers
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How big is the room? If I have a fEARful it can carry a small to medium venue no problem. Marshall stack? No worries.
 
#46
JdoubleH said:
Seriously though, you should only ever want one mic, if you must, placed where it sounds best. Two mic's on a single instrument = bad, IMO, unless one of them is there as a hot-standby (muted). More mics on stage = muddier, harder to control sound with more phase issues and bleed through. Again, IMO and IME.

I vote DI where possible.
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There is truth to what you say however I think you are overly paranoid because using more than just one mic on an instrument is not uncommon - for example, piano, or the front of a kick and the striker, or the top and bottom of the snare, or in front of an acoustic guitar and over the shoulder or the neck, and etc, etc. Anyway, the question of “how to mic a FF 1212/6” has been answered - IE, the second post in the link I posted and Burningskies answered it as well as greenboy and etc, etc.
 
#47
Using more than one mic works a lot better when they are separated by a barrier, as in the case of mixing the top of a snare and the bottom of a snare. Putting multiple mics up close to a speaker baffle induces a lot problems.

When I revisited multi-driver live cab micing with a fEARful a few years back it took all of 5 minutes of refresher-course experimenting to satisfy myself that it could happen a lot quicker yet at any gig, should I actually go that route.
 
#48
JdoubleH said:
Shirley, you jest! You'd probably need two, since the port is divided in two :)

Seriously though, you should only ever want one mic, if you must, placed where it sounds best. Two mic's on a single instrument = bad, IMO, unless one of them is there as a hot-standby (muted). More mics on stage = muddier, harder to control sound with more phase issues and bleed through. Again, IMO and IME.

I vote DI where possible.
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Both sides of the port put out the same stuff. But the port puts out different stuff than the woofer.
 
#49
I have applied the 3:1 rule with a great deal of success. When mic'ing a signal source with more than one mic, the distance between the mics should be at least three times the distance between the mic and the source. Otherwise you introduce phase anomalies. Of course this is a general rule, but works in most live sound situations I have encountered.

greenboy said:
Using more than one mic works a lot better when they are separated by a barrier, as in the case of mixing the top of a snare and the bottom of a snare. Putting multiple mics up close to a speaker baffle induces a lot problems.

When I revisited multi-driver live cab micing with a fEARful a few years back it took all of 5 minutes of refresher-course experimenting to satisfy myself that it could happen a lot quicker yet at any gig, should I actually go that route.
Click to expand...
 
#50
I follow the "drag more mics into the fray when it actually has a benefit" approach, myself ; }

EDIT: Since so much is dictated by the size of stage and the proximity of boundaries and sources (and the inverse square law), it comes down to specific situations of course. Large stages with plenty of set-up time and big budgets can get a different treatment than smaller stages that have three acts following in close and chaotic succession.
 
#51
That's the way I work, too. But for those that use a lot of effects the amp and speaker are part of the whole signal chain that needs to be "sent to the desk." If I were one that used a lot of effects I'd probably be using something like JohnK_10's Starliner 2x15: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/custom-diy-2x15-cab-build-854517/\. It seems more appropriate for the task at hand.

KO

scottfeldstein said:
I wouldn't mic under any circumstances if I could avoid it. I'd prefer the FOH get my signal before it hits my amp's EQ. I use my amp head and it's EQ to make my cabs sound right for stage monitoring. Why should the engineer have to take what I'm doing to sound good to myself on stage and then wrangle it into what sounds good out front? Better he gets the signal directly from my pedal board, or from the pre-EQ DI on my head.

My amp and my cabs are for me and my fellow musicians to hear me well on stage.

Except when there is no PA, or just a vocal range one. In that case I'd try to EQ my rig for the audience. But in that case there's no micing anyway.
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#52
The kick drum tone I prefer is very "Bonham-esque". I call it "round and full" others call it "boomy." I've compromised because I couldn't stand the incessant whining anymore. I don't have control over the front of house sound nor the person running it, so I try to give them something that the lesser among them won't screw up TOO badly.

KO

P.S. Good to see you Marcus!

Marcus Willett said:
Because that's what he's paid to do? Why am I the only person asked to give up his rig tone to make someone else's job easier? What is he giving up to make my job easier? Literally, bass is the only electric instrument that the player as a standard practice is told "your rig is a non-factor in what comes out front."

Literally, the only one.

EDIT: Of course, I know the standard retorts, among them synthesizers. Except a synth has all it's DSP and signal processing done when it leaves the instrument. If I was using multiple FX and pedals and EQ, and then sent THAT signal to the house (before amp) then the analogy holds.
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#54
Joe Louvar said:
There is truth to what you say however I think you are overly paranoid because using more than just one mic on an instrument is not uncommon - for example, piano, or the front of a kick and the striker, or the top and bottom of the snare, or in front of an acoustic guitar and over the shoulder or the neck, and etc, etc. Anyway, the question of “how to mic a FF 1212/6” has been answered - IE, the second post in the link I posted and Burningskies answered it as well as greenboy and etc, etc.
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I hear ya, but I'm just an advocate of keeping things simple. In my humble opinion and in my few decades if experience, bass rarely warrants overly complex reinforcement, and rarely does added signal complexity aid the results presented to the audience in an appreciable way.
 
#55
Using more than one mic works a lot better when they are separated by a barrier, as in the case of mixing the top of a snare and the bottom of a snare.
Click to expand...

Not always, and sometimes that would even be a bad idea - for example, on a grand piano, or a string harp, or close/distant micing, and etc.

Putting multiple mics up close to a speaker baffle induces a lot problems.
Click to expand...

+1. yea, that’s a bad idea.
 

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