One thing I never do when I leave a band is go back and see what they are up to or where they are playing. I move on and put leave them behind its just easier this way.I figure why? I'm sure they are not checking up on me.
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How Would You React? (BL Problem)
- Thread starter BayStateBass
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You're best rid of this clown anyway. He talks to his band members via Facebook? Perhaps I'm just old (yeah, I am), but that's a pitiful way to communicate with your band members. Forget about him and move on.
You're best bet is to take your time and completely sever the ties to the old band he considers his. New completely different name, don't poach any existing gigs, and I would even stay away from venues he books regularly for a while. Change up the set list significantly, and try not to give him any provocation to go postal.
BSB, I don't mean to play amateur shrink, but I frankly find your conflict-aversive behavior quite troubling.
While your empathy for other people's feelings is very admirable - and I really wish more people were more like that - what you may not realize is that: 1) people with serious character disorders routinely prey upon and exploit people like you - because they so easily can; and 2) at the end of the day, there's very little you can do to help them to improve their circumstances and their quality of life. At least not unless the person him/herself is determined to change...and you happen to be a fully-qualified mental health professional.
Moreover, you needn't carry such guilt - merely for feeling and expressing anger from time to time. Anger is a perfectly natural and normal emotion, and it serves a completely legitimate purpose: to defend oneself or others from abuse or threat. IMHO, there are only three tests one might need to apply: 1) Is my angry response appropriate under the circumstances?, 2) Is it proportional to the provocation?, and 3) Is it under control?
As much as you might empathize with the plight of a sad, silly old man who has brought so much unhappiness into his own life, that does not justify him bringing any of that unhappiness into YOUR life. You are under absolutely no obligation to serve as his doormat. And you cannot save him from himself.
If it helps you compartmentalize the issue as being "strictly business", then by all means you should feel to do so. Because at the end of the day, that's all it really is.
MM
BSB, I don't mean to play amateur shrink, but I frankly find your conflict-aversive behavior quite troubling.
While your empathy for other people's feelings is very admirable - and I really wish more people were more like that - what you may not realize is that: 1) people with serious character disorders routinely prey upon and exploit like you - because they so easily can; and 2) at the end of the day, there's very little you can do to help them to improve their circumstances and their quality of life. At least not unless the person him/herself is determined to change...and you happen to be a fully-qualified mental health professional.
Moreover, you needn't carry such guilt - merely for feeling and expressing anger from time to time. Anger is a perfectly natural and normal emotion, and it serves a completely legitimate purpose: to defend oneself or others from abuse or threat. IMHO, there are only three tests one might need to apply: 1) Is my angry response legitimate under the circumstances?, 2) Is it proportional to the provocation?, and 3) Is it under control?
As much as you might empathize with the plight of a sad, silly old man who has brought so much unhappiness into his own life, that does not justify him bringing any of that unhappiness into YOUR life. You are under absolutely no obligation to serve as his doormat. And you cannot save him from himself.
If it helps you compartmentalize the issue as being "strictly business", then by all means you should feel to do so. Because at the end of the day, that's all it really is.
MM
I find it troubling, too, MM. Call it Catholic Guilt, I guess. Or my own personality flaws, which I will readily admit that I have. I've come to realize through all of this that I had to make changes, too. I've come out much stronger after this experience and it's opened my eyes quite a bit to how things are, and what my own weaknesses are.
Yes, I am easily taken advantage of. Not something I'm proud of and all my life I've struggled with it. It took a lot for me to walk away from this totally dysfunctional situation. But on a personal level I came out a lot stronger and I'm proud that I finally said enough was enough and took action to protect myself. It was huge for me because in almost every relationship I have I am the mediator, peacemaker, and the one who sacrifices so others can be happy.
Not for nothing, but a while ago there was a thread here with a link to take a test for your personality type. Maybe you remember it, maybe not. My results indicated that I was an INFJ personality type, which is generally seen in only 1% of the population. I have taken this test many times, in many different versions, and I always come out the same.
If you have time, read these;
http://www.personalitypage.com/INFJ.html
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_per.html
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_rel.html
It is me, to a tee.
I'm not trying to find fault with ya, buddy. Merely concerned that you learn to stand up for yourself more effectively, that's all.
Yes, I'm well familiar with the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator system. (I myself am right on the line between INTJ & INTP. I once had an ENFP girlfriend. That was a wild ride!). Each personality type has its own inherent strengths & weaknesses - just as each individual person does.
For the record, there's actually a lot to like about the INFJ type. The trick - as always - is to acquire additional, non-native life skills, so as to achieve greater personality balance, and to compensate somewhat for any deficiencies.
All that natural intuition, empathy & care could very well be for naught - if it's ultimately wasted on a bunch of insensitive, manipulative douchebags who don't appreciate it, and can't benefit from it anyway.
Don't ya think?
MM
I'm not trying to find fault with ya, buddy. Merely concerned that you learn to stand up for yourself more effectively, that's all.
Yes, I'm well familiar with the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator system. (I myself am right on the line between INTJ & INTP. I once had an ENFP girlfriend. That was a wild ride!). Each personality type has its own inherent strengths & weaknesses - just as each individual person does.
For the record, there's actually a lot to like about the INFJ type. The trick - as always - is to acquire additional, non-native life skills, so as to achieve greater personality balance, and to compensate somewhat for any deficiencies.
All that natural intuition, empathy & care could very well be for naught - if it's ultimately wasted on a bunch of insensitive, manipulative douchebags who don't appreciate it, and can't benefit from it anyway.
Don't ya think?
MM
I do.
BSB, I don't mean to play amateur shrink, but I frankly find your conflict-aversive behavior quite troubling.
While your empathy for other people's feelings is very admirable - and I really wish more people were more like that - what you may not realize is that: 1) people with serious character disorders routinely prey upon and exploit people like you - because they so easily can; and 2) at the end of the day, there's very little you can do to help them to improve their circumstances and their quality of life. At least not unless the person him/herself is determined to change...and you happen to be a fully-qualified mental health professional.
Moreover, you needn't carry such guilt - merely for feeling and expressing anger from time to time. Anger is a perfectly natural and normal emotion, and it serves a completely legitimate purpose: to defend oneself or others from abuse or threat. IMHO, there are only three tests one might need to apply: 1) Is my angry response appropriate under the circumstances?, 2) Is it proportional to the provocation?, and 3) Is it under control?
As much as you might empathize with the plight of a sad, silly old man who has brought so much unhappiness into his own life, that does not justify him bringing any of that unhappiness into YOUR life. You are under absolutely no obligation to serve as his doormat. And you cannot save him from himself.
If it helps you compartmentalize the issue as being "strictly business", then by all means you should feel to do so. Because at the end of the day, that's all it really is.
MM
Sounds about right to me.
I once had a steady gig, there was a change of bandleader, and then a few weeks later he spontaneously fired the band. Out of curiosity, I went past the venue to see who would be playing in my place.
Nobody.
I went in. The venue owner was sitting at the bar. I asked him what happened. He said: "I fired that bandleader of yours. He brought in a bunch of kids who couldn't play. Now where am I going to find a band?"
I gave him the number of the pianist who had been playing the gig. He called her up. She called me up. We found a drummer and finished out the remaining gigs before she left town.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say fire the BL. Of course, there'll be yet another thread about those in favor of firing.
Late much! BL has been left holding a bandname with FB page and a demo cd of some guys he used to work with which he will probably represent as his new band.
I would be checking out the booked paying gigs too.
I would be checking out the booked paying gigs too.
Wow, what a thread.
I would just completely ignore the guy at this point (sounds like that's what you're basically doing). My attitude when other people have left or I've left other bands is that they are entitled to do whatever they want. Everyone has a right to try and "earn a living", so to speak.
Years ago, I had one band where a couple guys spontaneously quit to form their own band. It really hurt us because the band was starting to do really well and I had to turn down several short notice paying gigs because of it. It hurt my feelings personally because they apparently had issues with how I was handling certain things in the band, but they never bothered to voice any of these qualms until they quit.
Their new band did very well around the area for a while...lots of paying gigs, etc. I never bothered to check them out. I tried not to be bitter about how they left, but at the same time, I wasn't going to "spy" on them either. A couple years later they broke up. No sweat off my back.
Sounds like you have the makings of a great cover band around you...best wishes. As far as handling booking, while it can have its frustrations, its not as hard or complicated as some make it out to be. This guy probably wasn't doing anything special, especially if most of your summer gigs were freebies. Better off using that time to practice than to provide free entertainment.
I would just completely ignore the guy at this point (sounds like that's what you're basically doing). My attitude when other people have left or I've left other bands is that they are entitled to do whatever they want. Everyone has a right to try and "earn a living", so to speak.
Years ago, I had one band where a couple guys spontaneously quit to form their own band. It really hurt us because the band was starting to do really well and I had to turn down several short notice paying gigs because of it. It hurt my feelings personally because they apparently had issues with how I was handling certain things in the band, but they never bothered to voice any of these qualms until they quit.
Their new band did very well around the area for a while...lots of paying gigs, etc. I never bothered to check them out. I tried not to be bitter about how they left, but at the same time, I wasn't going to "spy" on them either. A couple years later they broke up. No sweat off my back.
Sounds like you have the makings of a great cover band around you...best wishes. As far as handling booking, while it can have its frustrations, its not as hard or complicated as some make it out to be. This guy probably wasn't doing anything special, especially if most of your summer gigs were freebies. Better off using that time to practice than to provide free entertainment.
Thanks everyone.
Newest development;
BL has put together a new band in a few days, with the exception of a bassist (anyone surprised by this?). He sent me an e-mail basically telling me that if I were to apologize to him he would take me back, and I should think it over because this would be an opportunity for me to play with "real musicians". He also told me that this would be the one and only time he would make the offer.
I won't go into everything he said or what my reply was to him, but I'm guessing that this is it....the end of the line.
Of course, I declined. I wished him well with his new group and told him that I hope he is able to accomplish what he set out to do.
I'm still not sure he is aware that we plan to go on as a group. Of course, nobody came out and told him we were going to. One of his comments in his e-mail to me was that I should consider coming back because even if I was not happy, it would beat not playing at all.
I tend to disagree with that statement as well.
Newest development;
BL has put together a new band in a few days, with the exception of a bassist (anyone surprised by this?). He sent me an e-mail basically telling me that if I were to apologize to him he would take me back, and I should think it over because this would be an opportunity for me to play with "real musicians". He also told me that this would be the one and only time he would make the offer.
I won't go into everything he said or what my reply was to him, but I'm guessing that this is it....the end of the line.
Of course, I declined. I wished him well with his new group and told him that I hope he is able to accomplish what he set out to do.
I'm still not sure he is aware that we plan to go on as a group. Of course, nobody came out and told him we were going to. One of his comments in his e-mail to me was that I should consider coming back because even if I was not happy, it would beat not playing at all.
I tend to disagree with that statement as well.
It's always nice when you make a decision and then someone else keeps doing things to reaffirm that you made the right choice.
What's the big deal? Tell the guy he's a nice guy but not what you were looking for. Music business is full of rejection. Everyone gets some.
Call the band leader out on this too.
Edit: read more. Ehf it. Avoid the fellow in the future.
Call the band leader out on this too.
Edit: read more. Ehf it. Avoid the fellow in the future.
Wait, he asked YOU to apologize to HIM?
Gee, sorry I put up with all your crap for so long, don't know how I could do such a thing. Can you ever forgive me?
Gee, sorry I put up with all your crap for so long, don't know how I could do such a thing. Can you ever forgive me?
...to which your reply was, "Promise?" Right?
Obviously he's desperate for a good bassist...one who's also willing to put up with his crap. But his ego and his pride still won't allow him to admit that he was the one who f*cked up.
That is simply a breathtaking display of chutzpah. In other words: 'If you apologize for having called me out on my abusive behavior, I'll allow you to come back...for even more abuse! But not because I need you. Because you need me!'
I hope that none of you has spilled the beans about the new band. In fact, I hope you're busily rehearsing right now - with that new lead guitarist - fleshing out your new set list and polishing your performance. Let Mr. Ex-Leader find out about the new band the same way everyone else will...when you soon start packing the house at every performance venue in the area!
MM
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